First Season Sires

LBM said:
Boylesport.

Sires like Teo and Dylan will find easier to win on that market. On the other hand, they might strugle to be competitive with the likes of Dark Angel, A Wolf, etc on betfair.
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We seem to have created a lot of confusion amongst ourselves.

The original market (as first priced up by Cashmans years ago) was for the Champion first Season sire with the most individual winners.

This is the current norm.

Betfair (apparently LBM) are running it by the first season sire with the largest total of races won.

The other leading sire lists (including champion sire of two year olds, whether they're first, second, third season etc) is done by prize money won.

The 'prize money won' approach tends to favour stallions that can produce Grp and Classic winners from fancy mares i.e the big studs.

The champion first Season sire is a more level playing field as it gives an indication of a new stallions ability to get winners from all types of mares, a lot of ordinary ones included. If they can upgrade them that becomes eveident too.
 
ORTEA (Nottingham 6.00) was the first winner for VITAL EQUINE yesterday.

The not-so-up-to-date table, the above winner is not included, looks like this:


STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 4–13 31% 5 18 3 1 1 £18,300 £23,239
Red Clubs 1–11 9% 2 14 1 1 3 £8,419 £10,832
Teofilo 1–1 100% 1 1 0 0 0 £10,112 £10,112
Dylan Thomas 1–1 100% 1 1 0 0 0 £7,733 £7,733
Amadeus Wolf 1–7 14% 1 9 1 3 0 £3,238 £5,100
Dutch Art 2–5 40% 2 6 1 1 1 £3,990 £5,036
Excellent Art 0–3 — 0 4 2 0 1 £0 £4,724
Multiplex 1–4 25% 1 5 0 0 1 £3,562 £3,562
Baltic King 1–3 33% 1 4 0 0 0 £3,344 £3,344
Cockney Rebel 1–4 25% 1 7 2 1 1 £1,706 £3,040
Lawman 1–2 50% 1 4 0 0 1 £1,706 £1,706
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 2 1 0 0 £0 £886
Three Valleys 0–3 — 0 3 1 0 0 £0 £714
Misu Bond 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £481
Vital Equine 0–3 — 0 3 0 0 1 £0 £144
Jeremy 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Moss Vale 0–3 — 0 3 0 0 0 £0 £0
Strategic Prince 0–4 — 0 7 0 0 0 £0 £0
 
Table as printed in Racing Post today:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 6–13 46% 7 23 4 2 2 £26,654 £33,986
Dutch Art 3–8 38% 5 13 2 3 2 £16,526 £20,307
Red Clubs 2–13 15% 3 19 2 2 3 £11,592 £16,583
Excellent Art 1–3 33% 1 5 2 0 1 £7,733 £12,457
Teofilo 1–1 100% 1 1 0 0 0 £10,112 £10,112
Dylan Thomas 1–1 100% 1 1 0 0 0 £7,733 £7,733
Amadeus Wolf 1–10 10% 1 14 2 3 1 £3,238 £5,967
Multiplex 1–7 14% 1 9 1 0 1 £3,562 £4,166
Baltic King 1–3 33% 1 6 1 0 0 £3,344 £4,049
Vital Equine 1–3 33% 1 5 1 0 1 £2,267 £3,355
Cockney Rebel 1–4 25% 1 8 2 1 1 £1,706 £3,040
Lawman 1–2 50% 1 4 0 0 1 £1,706 £1,706
Three Valleys 0–6 — 0 6 1 1 0 £0 £1,051
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 2 1 0 0 £0 £886
Misu Bond 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £481
Jeremy 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Strategic Prince 0–4 — 0 8 0 0 0 £0 £0
Moss Vale 0–4 — 0 5 0 0 0 £0 £0
 
Racing Post table this morning:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 7–16 44% 9 29 6 3 2 £44,395 £55,041
Dutch Art 3–9 33% 5 18 3 3 3 £16,526 £22,662
Excellent Art 2–3 67% 2 6 2 0 1 £16,655 £21,379
Red Clubs 2–14 14% 3 23 4 2 3 £11,592 £18,561
Teofilo 1–3 33% 1 3 1 0 0 £10,112 £12,457
Cockney Rebel 1–4 25% 2 10 2 1 2 £8,312 £9,893
Dylan Thomas 1–1 100% 1 1 0 0 0 £7,733 £7,733
Amadeus Wolf 1–14 7% 1 20 2 5 2 £3,238 £6,593
Multiplex 1–7 14% 1 10 2 0 1 £3,562 £4,667
Baltic King 1–3 33% 1 7 1 0 1 £3,344 £4,626
Vital Equine 1–3 33% 1 5 1 0 1 £2,267 £3,355
Lawman 1–2 50% 1 4 0 0 1 £1,706 £1,706
Three Valleys 0–7 — 0 10 1 1 2 £0 £1,542
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 3 1 0 0 £0 £886
Misu Bond 0–2 — 0 2 0 0 1 £0 £481
Jeremy 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Echo Of Light 0–2 — 0 2 0 0 0 £0 £0
Strategic Prince 0–4 — 0 8 0 0 0 £0 £0
Moss Vale 0–4 — 0 5 0 0 0 £0 £0


HARD SPUN had a winner from his first runner yesterday, MABROOR, who picked up £2914 at Haydock yesterday.
 
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Echo of light - a horse I was convinced would mangle a Group 1 field one day. I don't think I've given that idea up just yet..
 
With you on that Hamm everything about him from breeding to looks I was in love with. Never quite got there on the track though always promised so much.
 
I remember the year he was 25/1 for the Champion Stakes - I was convinced I was going to be going on a very long holiday when he romped home, and when he went 10 lengths clear I thought he was the second coming!
 
Pickled Pelican nice debut to finish second to a talking horse of Chapple-Hyam's.

For the interest of a couple of posters on this thread:

TEOFILO has TEOLANE in the Naas 5.30 tomorrow and

JEREMY has PRINCESS SINEAD in the same race.

At Kempton 6.50, HELIOSTATIC (bred,'owned' and trained by Jim Bolger and a winner at two over 7f.) has COSTA DEL FORTUNE (trained by Richard Hannon) as his first runner.
 
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MOSS VALE, good sprinter trained by Dandy Nicholls, had his first winner today and his second.

GREEK CANYON winning at Cork followed a short time later by MUCKLE BAHOOCHIE going in at Dundalk.

Tomorrow sees MANDURO, worlds top-rated horse in 2007, have his first runner with MANOMINE in the Newmarket 4.00.
 
This week's table:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 7–19 37% 9 34 9 3 2 £44,395 £60,533
Dutch Art 4–14 29% 8 26 3 3 6 £38,432 £45,579
Red Clubs 3–18 17% 4 32 4 4 4 £13,980 £22,329
Excellent Art 2–6 33% 2 10 2 1 2 £16,655 £22,249
Moss Vale 2–4 50% 2 7 0 0 0 £14,871 £14,871
Teofilo 1–5 20% 1 5 1 1 1 £10,112 £14,082
Cockney Rebel 1–6 17% 2 12 2 1 2 £8,312 £9,893
Amadeus Wolf 1–18 6% 1 25 3 5 3 £3,238 £9,386
Dylan Thomas 1–2 50% 1 2 1 0 0 £7,733 £8,407
Multiplex 1–7 14% 1 13 2 0 3 £3,562 £4,840
Baltic King 1–4 25% 1 8 1 0 1 £3,344 £4,626
Vital Equine 1–4 25% 1 7 2 1 1 £2,267 £4,504
Jeremy 0–3 — 0 4 2 0 0 £0 £3,032
Hard Spun 1–1 100% 1 1 0 0 0 £2,914 £2,914
Lawman 1–2 50% 1 4 0 0 1 £1,706 £1,706
Three Valleys 0–9 — 0 12 1 1 2 £0 £1,542
Strategic Prince 0–4 — 0 9 1 0 0 £0 £907
Echo Of Light 0–4 — 0 4 0 1 0 £0 £905
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 3 1 0 0 £0 £886
Heliostatic 0–2 — 0 2 1 0 0 £0 £705
Misu Bond 0–4 — 0 4 0 0 1 £0 £481
Rail Link 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
 
Dylan Thomas first winner Snowflake Dancer runs in the 2.15 Navan. Looks a very good race.
 
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