First Season Sires

Hezz, to answer your question, sires' positions are based on the earnings their progeny make.

The current NH leading sire by earnings is KING'S THEATRE (born 1991). The data that are kept on him show number of runs (by progeny) = 154; number of wins = 57; percentage of win ratio = 37%; number of races = 73; AWD = 19.3; earnings = £858,799; top horse = MENORAH; top horse's earnings = £142,525.

The table produced in TB Owner & Breeder mag for March 2011 shows the top ten NH sires by earnings as:

KING'S THEATRE
PRESENTING
BENEFICIAL
OSCAR
FLEMENSFIRTH
ANSHAN
ACCORDION
OLD VIC
BOB BACK
MONTJEU

leading the next 10 best are:

CADOUDAL
SADLER'S WELLS
DEFINITE ARTICLE
DR MASSINI
ALDERBROOK
DOM ALCO
MIDNIGHT LEGEND
BARATHEA
KAYF TARA
ALFLORA

You'll see there are some already who have died, but remain in the table as long as their progeny is still racing and earning prize money. Even then, they may set benchmarks which will take years for others to supercede.
 
For the purposes of Champion 2yo sire, the winner is decided by the number of winners. This is to avoid the results being skewed by valuable sales races, where the winnings would automatically catapult the sire into the top 10 at the end of the season.
 
... and if you bet on Betfair, the winner will be the sire whose progeny wins the most races, so potentially, we could have different winners depending where you put your money on.
 
Maybe he means they tot up the total no. of races won and not just the amount of horses that have won ( 1 or more) races ?
 
Sorry to contradict you, guys, but although Weatherbys does produce a number of sires lists (including first time sires) based on winners, etc., the champion sire of 2 y.o.'s is decided by the amount of money his progeny wins. Weatherbys are aware of skewing, as Bar has said, by bonus races, etc., but at present there are no plans to change the top sire of 2 y.o.'s position from money won by progeny, not the number of races won.

Think about it... one 2 y.o. by ABC wins one race worth £250,000, while the progeny of XYZ win 10 races at Class 6 worth £1,200 apiece. If the champion sire was based on wins alone, the sire whose offspring produced the least return would be the winner. But it's money that matters, and the top sire in any category (my example is above, in case you missed it) is decided at the end of a calendar year by his progeny's winnings.

Anyone is welcome to check this out for themselves with the Thoroughbred Breeders' Association, tel 01638 661321. The present leader is GALILEO, by the way.
 
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Surely we're talking about first season sires though Kri? Not the 2yo stallion championship which is a different competition.
 
With respect, Bar, you weren't in your post above, which says "for the purposes of champion 2yo sire, the winner is decided by the number of winners" - unless someone is impersonating you. That is what I sought to correct.

I did phone up the TBA to double check that I wasn't talking bollocks, which is why I put their tel no up in case anyone wanted to check for themselves.
 
krizon said:
With respect, Bar, you weren't in your post above, which says "for the purposes of champion 2yo sire, the winner is decided by the number of winners" - unless someone is impersonating you. That is what I sought to correct.

I did phone up the TBA to double check that I wasn't talking bollocks, which is why I put their tel no up in case anyone wanted to check for themselves.
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But I was typing it in the thread "First Season Sires".
 
Please do!! :lol:

Guys, I've got a bit more info that might help you. I've phoned Weatherbys, which keeps sires data, and if you go to http://www.bloodstockreports.com, ignore the splash pages and keep going until you find the main site and VISIT REPORTS, then look for a green bar, where there will be the leading lists, with examples of the reports that they publish. Now, the bad news is that you do have to pay for the reports that you want, but they will list your FIRST SEASON SIRES by entries, wins to date and monies won. You can decide which category you want to visit and pay as you go.

If, while you're visiting the reports, you have a question, the lovely Rachel at Weatherbys (Bloodstock dept) says feel free to phone and ask: tel no 01933 440077 (switchboard).

Hopefully, that'll be "The Road to My Second Million" for some of you, if "The Road To... " hasn't been culled!
 
I suppose I should've gone to Page One, but as it was about betting, I wasn't really interested. That'll larn me! Anyway, now you do have a little tool :( to help you see trends if you want to.
 
That is what I thought - Kri had me confused!!!! Ifraaj won on both counts last year, mainly thanks to Wooton Bassetts exploits (Not including the Lagadere either)
 
I was initially answering Hezz's question. The tables used to ascertain leading sires are based on sires' progeny's winning in terms of official standings - the topic that's being discussed here, though, is a bookmaker's offer based on which first season sire gets the most wins, not the most money, which isn't the same thing, of course. In other words, it's a competition, not a formal table used for breeding data. My mistake.
 
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Bar the Bull said:
All bookmakers and Betfair will settle the winner of the market "Champion First Season Sires" on number of wins by each sire's progeny.
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I don´t know about all bookmakers Bar, but my bookmaker will pay as the sire with most individual winners. Betfair will pay as the sire with most races won.
 
Boylesport.

Sires like Teo and Dylan will find easier to win on that market. On the other hand, they might strugle to be competitive with the likes of Dark Angel, A Wolf, etc on betfair.
 
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