Frankel V Canford Cliffs

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Fair enough, but that is what internet forums are about. Some people say that Cheltenham is killing Naitonal Hunt, and I was frustrated about how many of the leading stars didn't run in the lead up to the race. However, I think Cheltenham is indisputably good for National Hunt racing, and I think Arc day is very good for French racing, and I think English flat racing is wise to try to do something similar.
 
Aragorn said:
We don't have novice chasers running against seasoned campaigners so that changes the dynamic
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Novices are analogous to 2yos, in that they're generally kept apart from the rest of the population in the top races.

the Arc is the middle distance gold cup.
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Yes, in that it's the most prestigious race. But it's not the be-all and end-all of the season.

Arc day has 6 group 1's so it's the same concept as Champions day or Cheltnenham (Just condensed).
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But the fact that its only one day (although there's lots of Group races on the Saturday) means it hasn't become the massive gravitational force that the Festival is. Arc day is probably the best single day of flat racing on the planet (maybe the BC, but that's another argument), but it simply doesn't have the status of the "Olympics of Racing" that's often ascribed to Cheltenham. And IMO that's a very good thing. There's a reason the Olympics themselves only come around every four years.

And when have you seen horses run in all or even 75% of the races you've listed? There are at least two divisions there. Only sea the stars has managed anything close to that.
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I was very careful where I put my apostrophes! I'm not suggesting a single horse would take all of those races in, but that the top dozen or so middle distance horses - as a group - would (swap in the Sheema Classic > Tattersalls Gold Cup > Coronation Cup > Prince of Wales for the older horses). They're all prestigious races and important tests in their own right; whereas over jumps even the King George has become just another pointer to the Festival. It's gone too far, IMO, and I would hate to see flat racing go the same way.
 
Fair play Gareth - All valid points; we just share a slightly different view. Like Bar I personally don't think Cheltenham is such a bad thing. Its the only event outside of the Grand National that I know non-racing fans take an interest in and it gives a sense of a finale to the season but I understand the arguments against (I'm on the fence about the fourth day - Not convinced that was such a good idea).

I was using 3yo's but 2yo's is probably more appropriate. The 3yo's are the second season chasers!
 
Not that I subscribe to such things, but I'm told the Racingpost twitter feed reporting Canford Cliffs retired due to injury.
 
Steve T said:
Not that I subscribe to such things, but I'm told the Racingpost twitter feed reporting Canford Cliffs retired due to injury.
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From the site (and Hannon has confirmed):

CANFORD CLIFFS has been retired to stud after suffering an injury when chasing home Frankel in last week's Sussex Stakes at Goodwood.



Sounds like Coolmore cashing in their chips. I would have like to have seen him a couple more times.
 
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SteveM said:
From the site (and Hannon has confirmed):

CANFORD CLIFFS has been retired to stud after suffering an injury when chasing home Frankel in last week's Sussex Stakes at Goodwood.



Sounds like Coolmore cashing in their chips. I would have like to have seen him a couple more times.
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Has to be... Classic get out of jail free card.
 
A bit more flesh from the PA:


Connections have subsequently found the four-year-old to have suffered a minor injury but have decided to call time on his racing career for fear of the problem developing into something more serious.
"He has a bit of a shadow on the joint running into the pastern and that could turn into something nasty - it could turn into a fracture," said Hannon.
Hannon added: "He's a perfectly sound horse and I could very nearly go on training him, but under that light, I don't want to do the horse any damage as he's done us so proud.
"It's a terrible shame - it's heartbreaking, but I don't want to see him end up with a bad injury.
"If we carried on, we would have to give him box rest and with a big horse like him, he'd just get bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier.
"Doing that might just cause him a bad injury and that would break everybody's heart.
"He now goes off to stud sound. If anything happened to him, I couldn't forgive myself.
"He's been a fantastic horse for the yard. He's won five Group Ones - you can't do any more than that."
"Canford Cliffs was a very rare type in that he had such great early speed as a two-year-old but also stretched out to be a superb miler at three and four. He is without doubt the best horse I have had in over 40 years as a trainer.
"It's bitterly disappointing for his owners and for everyone here in East Everleigh that he had to be retired due to injury but at least it does explain why he hung so badly at Goodwood. We were very much looking forward to taking on Frankel again." added the East Everleigh handler.
Canford Cliffs is set to stand at Coolmore Stud in Ireland in accordance with a deal that was finalised at the end of last season.
The agreement meant the powerful operation owned a share in the colt for his racecourse appearances in 2011 and it also secured his services as a stallion.
Coolmore's M.V. Magnier stated "It's very unfortunate that he has been retired as a re-match with Frankel would have been a race to savour but Canford Cliffs is an exceptional looking individual and he joins a select band of stallions to have won 5 or more consecutive Group 1 races.
"Ever since we bought into him last year many of the top breeders in Europe have shown a very keen interest in him so I have no doubt he will be a very popular stallion."


 
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He had just arrived at the point I always expected him to reach... another couple of victory laps would have cemented his reputation.

Still many horses never get the chance to fulfil their potential... I think we can say this one did.
 
Perhaps it’s best to leave the final word to those that knew him best:

Both Hannon and Hughes were adamant Canford Cliffs was the finest horse they had ever been associated with. Hughes, who rode him all his 11 starts, described him as "the best and fastest I have ever ridden".
 
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I prefer to deal in analysis rather than opinions. The fact he has been retired (Magnier no doubt had a strong say) says a lot.
 
Money.

Hannon's & Magnier's speaking about a re-match with Frankel ....

We all would have got in the ring with Joe Frazier / Muhammed Ali / Tyson ... but well we had a bit of an injury, so we retired.

If horse-hair gave more profit than racing, would they corner the market?
 
Hamm said:
I prefer to deal in analysis rather than opinions. The fact he has been retired (Magnier no doubt had a strong say) says a lot.
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:lol: ...what "analysis" would this be then? Presumably this make Paco Boy better than Goldikova?
 
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SteveM said:
:lol: ...what "analysis" would this be then? Presumably this make Paco Boy better than Goldikova?
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He beat Goldikova less than a length. She carried 2 pounds overweight. It's fair to say there was more than a little doubt as to who would have won if Peslier had not been overweight. Paco Boy finished close up behind Goldikova in the same race last season. I'm not stretching any point to say they (Paco and Canford) have probably run to similar levels of form. To those who think 2 pounds didn't make a difference, perhaps they would also like to do away with handicaps in general.

The proximity of Cityscape shows the 2 pounds had an effect on Goldikova's performance.

In comparison again to Goldikova, Canford proved to be not of the same level in terms of adaptability (Foret, Isaphan) as Goldikova, nor possess anything like the same durability.

The facts are now there for all to see, and Canford Cliffs was undoubtedly a very good miler, but absolutely not a great one.
 
sunybay said:
Goldikova at her best would have beaten Canford b more than 2 lengths.
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Yes, I agree but I'm trying to avoid conjecture here ... if Peslier weighed what he should have, she would have won (despite probably being a little below her best). Very frustrating.
 
Canford beat Goldikova with a bit in hand this year. Even at the proper weights, IMO he'd have won on the day.
 
Bar the Bull said:
Rip van Winkle beat Paco Boy by 2.5L.
Rip van Winkle lost to Canford Cliffs by 0.25L.

In both cases, especially the latter, the winner was value for more than the published difference.
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Rip Van Winkle was a shadow of the 2009 horse in 2010 - surely you would accept that, and that he is a very poor year to year comparison?
 
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