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Bruce_Savage
Guest
She's probably got the upper hand against me in this debate which is what I'm fearful of, so I'm trying to expose her hand a little and bring her into a new dimension that I know is 100% in my favour which can be used as ammunition for the cause of French trainers treat their horses like animals.
I'd like to tell you what you are the epitome of Bruce but I reckon it would fall on deaf ears..... Your first sentence though, as my learned colleague Mr M pointed, was the most laughable attempt at appearing intelligent I've read in a while!!
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
It's not easy switching from a 8500 Word Document of extreme intellectual thought processing to focus your attention on such a minuscule matter such a Topic on a message board and as you've seen words can be misinterpreted.
Members on here get away with murder in relation to their punctuation but nevertheless I've never taken it upon myself to pick up on their mistakes and use it as a weapon against them for the duration of their time on the forum.
I've tried to devote my time into making serious threads that provoked high levels of intellectual properties but I was again beaten down for being patronizing, unfair debates that left out those who wanted to post in few sentances and was subsequently left to be put on moderation control.
I have since tightened up my posting style, I've become more of a forum user by posting relatively short replies in an attempt to continue efficient forum flow but again I've been the subject of some controversy despite writing a valid word in the context of the subject.
I'm not trying to be clever, if I wanted to I could sweep the floor with the lot of you but that's not why I'm here, I just want to talk about Horse Racing.
Members on here get away with murder in relation to their punctuation but nevertheless I've never taken it upon myself to pick up on their mistakes and use it as a weapon against them for the duration of their time on the forum.
I've tried to devote my time into making serious threads that provoked high levels of intellectual properties but I was again beaten down for being patronizing, unfair debates that left out those who wanted to post in few sentances and was subsequently left to be put on moderation control.
I have since tightened up my posting style, I've become more of a forum user by posting relatively short replies in an attempt to continue efficient forum flow but again I've been the subject of some controversy despite writing a valid word in the context of the subject.
I'm not trying to be clever, if I wanted to I could sweep the floor with the lot of you but that's not why I'm here, I just want to talk about Horse Racing.
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SlimChance
Guest
Bruce has filled his fishing net again I see.
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
If you don't intend on talking about French Horse Racing in this thread then I suggest you attempt to stay away in causing derailment of the topic on offer, for which isn't fair on the others who want to read about the topic.
Back as we were.
MAXIME GUYON
Maxime Guyon (born 7 May 1989) is a French flat racing jockey. Debut at 2005. Start from 2008, he received possessional license, won first group one at Grand Prix de Paris. From 2010, he won race in United Kingdom, Japan and Hong Kong. In Hong Kong he made an immediate impact in a short stint with 15 victories that won him second place in the Most Popular Jockey of the Year in 2010/11 season
ROLE OF HONOUR
France
Grand Prix de Paris - (2) - Cavalryman (2009), Meandre (2011)
Poule d'Essai des Poulains - (1) - Lope de Vega (2010)
Prix de Diane - (1) - Golden Lilac (2011)
Prix Jean Romanet - (1) - Announce (2011)
Prix du Jockey Club - (1) - Lope de Vega (2010)
Prix de l'Opéra - (1) - Shalanaya (2009)
Prix Royal-Oak - (1) - Be Fabulous (2011)
United Kingdom
Prince of Wales's Stakes - (1) - Byword (2010)[2]
Hong Kong
Hong Kong Classic Cup - (1) - Ambitious Dragon (2011)
Hong Kong Derby - (1) - Ambitious Dragon (2011)
One to watch this year, think he could ride a lot of surprise places and winners at big prices this year - we should all keep an eye on him.
Any others people are interested in?
Back as we were.
MAXIME GUYON
Maxime Guyon (born 7 May 1989) is a French flat racing jockey. Debut at 2005. Start from 2008, he received possessional license, won first group one at Grand Prix de Paris. From 2010, he won race in United Kingdom, Japan and Hong Kong. In Hong Kong he made an immediate impact in a short stint with 15 victories that won him second place in the Most Popular Jockey of the Year in 2010/11 season
ROLE OF HONOUR
France
Grand Prix de Paris - (2) - Cavalryman (2009), Meandre (2011)
Poule d'Essai des Poulains - (1) - Lope de Vega (2010)
Prix de Diane - (1) - Golden Lilac (2011)
Prix Jean Romanet - (1) - Announce (2011)
Prix du Jockey Club - (1) - Lope de Vega (2010)
Prix de l'Opéra - (1) - Shalanaya (2009)
Prix Royal-Oak - (1) - Be Fabulous (2011)
United Kingdom
Prince of Wales's Stakes - (1) - Byword (2010)[2]
Hong Kong
Hong Kong Classic Cup - (1) - Ambitious Dragon (2011)
Hong Kong Derby - (1) - Ambitious Dragon (2011)
One to watch this year, think he could ride a lot of surprise places and winners at big prices this year - we should all keep an eye on him.
Any others people are interested in?
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SlimChance
Guest
I'd rather you started a thread explaining how you're going to make £30k on the flat.
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He's penning his 8500 word thesis right now Slim........ Let the great man work.
edgt
Senior Jockey
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
I've signed up to Equidia for the French Flat season & was going to start hand timing some of the finishes so we can use them to our advantage.
Not sure how tight the French security is otherwise I would hand out the login details for us but I'd hate to get banned and would be counter productive.
Not sure how tight the French security is otherwise I would hand out the login details for us but I'd hate to get banned and would be counter productive.
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imagine
At the Start
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 685
Perhaps if you wanted a better reception on here you should avoid making statements like this. You won't be the only one on here is highly educated, so don't presume that you could "sweep the floor" with us all. Having an education can be a very different thing to having intelligence.
Miesque
At the Start
Petite Noblesse with Fabre one to watch after Saint Cloud surely.
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
How was Evaporation allowed to go off at 26/1 in the Group 3 Prix Edmond Blanc?
The Racing Post say Petit Noblesse is trained by Aiden O'Brien - probably just an error.
Will catch up with some of the replays later.
Any others that caught your eye on the card?
Miesque
At the Start
Didn't watch any of the rest - just happened to see this one in the office. The filly is with Fabre, as part of the Coolmore draft RP seems to assume everything is with AP until thye find out otherwise.
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
Two Group races to be treated to on Thursday, the first looks a real treat with French Fifteen & Abtaal.
On a side note does anyone know where I can grab hold of some data from France preferably time related, I haven't got time to manually do it from scratch off the Racing Post & Raceform Interactive isn't worth the money.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
If you're after race times then I'd suggest www.geny.com - that aside hand timing and the like is the only method that I know of 
Harbinger
At the Start
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
- Messages
- 11,282
No less manual than the RP, but more accurate:
http://www.paris-turf.com/
http://www2.france-galop.com/FGWeb/domaines/courses/courses_calendrier.aspx
http://www.paris-turf.com/
http://www2.france-galop.com/FGWeb/domaines/courses/courses_calendrier.aspx
Gamla Stan
At the Start
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2005
- Messages
- 4,337
If you are planning on winning £30k during the flat season, £295 until the end of the season is shag all.
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
Any thought's on this then?
I'm currently looking at the chances of Vento. This horse was 3.5l behind Beauvoir on the 9th of March rattling home at the finish under a slow run race.
The winner Beauvoir won a Maiden at Deauville, the second horse hasn't run yet but the 3rd Loi went on to win next time out before landing the Prix De Conde (Group 3) at Longchamp on his final start. That race has already taken a form boost, Yang Tse Kiang running second in the UAE Derby this weekend, Lidari 2.75l back in third has won a Listed race since and had previously finished 2nd to Rockinante by 0.75l at Deauville over 7f. Another to mention would be Tifongo who finished 5th in the Grand Criterium.
Going back to this race where Vento was a fast finishing 3rd on the 9th of March at Deauville over 7.5f, the runner up Coupe De Theatre has since come out to land a Listed event at Saint Cloud.
The horse quite clearly needs a strong pace & has shown last year he is more than capable of putting in a strong effort against some of the best 2 year olds in France - rattled home against Tai Chi (Eventual 3rd in Criterium De Saint-Cloud) and certainly wasn't stopping in the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere behind Dabirsm at 100-1.
The two starts to date have completely gone against the design of the horse and he might want the ground to be on the good side rather than heavy but I'm willing to take a chance on him at a big price.
I don't think you have to produce a Group 1 performance to win today's race but I expect him to improve further for today's racing conditions & would like him held up more if possible but I would only be putting a bet on for the place & might even get about 10/1 for it too which is still a decent winner in anyones books.
The likely winner is French Fifteen who showed an abnormal turn of foot last time out with Abtaal looking like a monster when destroying his field from the front - exciting race.
Maybe 1st - French Fifteen, 2nd - Abtaal, 3rd - Vento
I'm currently looking at the chances of Vento. This horse was 3.5l behind Beauvoir on the 9th of March rattling home at the finish under a slow run race.
The winner Beauvoir won a Maiden at Deauville, the second horse hasn't run yet but the 3rd Loi went on to win next time out before landing the Prix De Conde (Group 3) at Longchamp on his final start. That race has already taken a form boost, Yang Tse Kiang running second in the UAE Derby this weekend, Lidari 2.75l back in third has won a Listed race since and had previously finished 2nd to Rockinante by 0.75l at Deauville over 7f. Another to mention would be Tifongo who finished 5th in the Grand Criterium.
Going back to this race where Vento was a fast finishing 3rd on the 9th of March at Deauville over 7.5f, the runner up Coupe De Theatre has since come out to land a Listed event at Saint Cloud.
The horse quite clearly needs a strong pace & has shown last year he is more than capable of putting in a strong effort against some of the best 2 year olds in France - rattled home against Tai Chi (Eventual 3rd in Criterium De Saint-Cloud) and certainly wasn't stopping in the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere behind Dabirsm at 100-1.
The two starts to date have completely gone against the design of the horse and he might want the ground to be on the good side rather than heavy but I'm willing to take a chance on him at a big price.
I don't think you have to produce a Group 1 performance to win today's race but I expect him to improve further for today's racing conditions & would like him held up more if possible but I would only be putting a bet on for the place & might even get about 10/1 for it too which is still a decent winner in anyones books.
The likely winner is French Fifteen who showed an abnormal turn of foot last time out with Abtaal looking like a monster when destroying his field from the front - exciting race.
Maybe 1st - French Fifteen, 2nd - Abtaal, 3rd - Vento
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
Looking at the Fillies race, I think Restidargent isn't going to be without her supporters when looking at her victory in the Group 2 at Maisons-laffitte she was 0.30s slower than Iver Bridge Lad who won the Group 3 sprint straight after although she won her race an easy 5 lengths.
There's also a 5.5f event at Maisons-laffitte in September where she beat Kendam 0.75l who went on to run 5th in the Grand Criterium and could boost her chances if Vento & French Fifteen manage to run well.
Funnily enough, Topkea run on that card in November, she was 0.90s quicker than Stand My Ground later on in the evening whose a solid older horse that looks a genuine Listed & Group performer. Topeka strikes me as a filly that needs a mile at least though.
Tribune was 3l behind Rock Me Baby on debut, that horse was beat 1.25l by Kendam on her third run which strengthens Residargent's hand who comfortably beat Kendam but that also leaves a lot of the field trailing by in the form book who raced behind Tribune recently.
The filly that really catches the eye is Mashoora who was staggering 2.53s quicker than the Maiden for Colts before hand at Deauville whom contained Sofast & Abtaal. That sort of perfomance makes you wonder how she's managed to get herself beat twice since, then you look at the other 6f race on the card which was run 1.12s faster won by a fair handicapper.
The third in that race Faustina was beaten 7l by Iver Bridge Lad on that Maisons-laffitte card with Topeka & Restidargent!
You could argue the case for Ruby's Day when finishing well behind Dabrism but she does look a sprinter and has been beaten 0.5l by Luv U Forever over 6f in a Listed event won by Vladmir - Luv U Foreverwas subsequently beaten 2.5l by Restidargent at Maisons-laffitte
I think Restidargent has this field covered and I quite like to have a bet on her too!
There's also a 5.5f event at Maisons-laffitte in September where she beat Kendam 0.75l who went on to run 5th in the Grand Criterium and could boost her chances if Vento & French Fifteen manage to run well.
Funnily enough, Topkea run on that card in November, she was 0.90s quicker than Stand My Ground later on in the evening whose a solid older horse that looks a genuine Listed & Group performer. Topeka strikes me as a filly that needs a mile at least though.
Tribune was 3l behind Rock Me Baby on debut, that horse was beat 1.25l by Kendam on her third run which strengthens Residargent's hand who comfortably beat Kendam but that also leaves a lot of the field trailing by in the form book who raced behind Tribune recently.
The filly that really catches the eye is Mashoora who was staggering 2.53s quicker than the Maiden for Colts before hand at Deauville whom contained Sofast & Abtaal. That sort of perfomance makes you wonder how she's managed to get herself beat twice since, then you look at the other 6f race on the card which was run 1.12s faster won by a fair handicapper.
The third in that race Faustina was beaten 7l by Iver Bridge Lad on that Maisons-laffitte card with Topeka & Restidargent!
You could argue the case for Ruby's Day when finishing well behind Dabrism but she does look a sprinter and has been beaten 0.5l by Luv U Forever over 6f in a Listed event won by Vladmir - Luv U Foreverwas subsequently beaten 2.5l by Restidargent at Maisons-laffitte
I think Restidargent has this field covered and I quite like to have a bet on her too!
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Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
I posted this elsewhere regarding the Djebel:
I've already stated elsewhere that my idea of the winner of the Newmarket Guineas iis Abtaal who returns tomorrow in the Djebel.
The main concern for me is that he's likely to be going off odds-on and with the last 3 favourites all beaten in the race two of which went off odds-on with one being trained by Jean-Claude Rouget (same as Abtaal) with the other favourite being beaten at 11/10. On the positive side JCR did win this back in 2009 with subsequent French Derby winner Le Havre and the drop back in trip shouldn't inconvenience Abtaal with the pacemakers in the race and also Salure in there too.
If we're after one at a bigger price I certainly wouldn't want to be ruling out the German raider Al Malek who was smashed to pieces like an Emmet Butterly trained handicapper off a "break" when making his debut on the fibresand at Deauville in December and he cruised through the race to quicken away from a couple of solid handicappers (and Derivatives who holds the form down somewhat). I'm no expert on the German form but he returned last month at Krefield over 7f when romping home by 13 lengths in a conditions race, the third (Saphira) had previously raced down at Deauville where she ran in a conditions race on the fibresand finishing runner-up to La Haye (2 wins in 3 starts at PMU tracks - only career runs) whilst the fourth Marasia contested a handicap last time out off 40.5 which would put Al Malek right up there with the principals in this IMO.
I've already stated elsewhere that my idea of the winner of the Newmarket Guineas iis Abtaal who returns tomorrow in the Djebel.
The main concern for me is that he's likely to be going off odds-on and with the last 3 favourites all beaten in the race two of which went off odds-on with one being trained by Jean-Claude Rouget (same as Abtaal) with the other favourite being beaten at 11/10. On the positive side JCR did win this back in 2009 with subsequent French Derby winner Le Havre and the drop back in trip shouldn't inconvenience Abtaal with the pacemakers in the race and also Salure in there too.
If we're after one at a bigger price I certainly wouldn't want to be ruling out the German raider Al Malek who was smashed to pieces like an Emmet Butterly trained handicapper off a "break" when making his debut on the fibresand at Deauville in December and he cruised through the race to quicken away from a couple of solid handicappers (and Derivatives who holds the form down somewhat). I'm no expert on the German form but he returned last month at Krefield over 7f when romping home by 13 lengths in a conditions race, the third (Saphira) had previously raced down at Deauville where she ran in a conditions race on the fibresand finishing runner-up to La Haye (2 wins in 3 starts at PMU tracks - only career runs) whilst the fourth Marasia contested a handicap last time out off 40.5 which would put Al Malek right up there with the principals in this IMO.
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Bruce_Savage
Guest
Good post Irish, I enjoyed it.
Have to agree that Al Malek looks an interesting option but what put me off him was the fact he's gone from a hard ridden 4 lengths victory against Derivatives whose no more than a 65 rated Handicapper to destroying Saphira by 14 lengths.
Not a fan of wide margin winners myself, always shorter in the betting next time out and in cases over rated for a good 5 runs after.
I would also love to know how this horse escaped Freddy Head if he could be this good! not sold as a yearling and ended up in Germany, of course that's subjective but makes you wonder.
Will gladly eat any humble pie later this afternoon but that's where I stand on him.
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On a side note, how long does it take for the French markets to get going on Betfair?
I've tried a cheeky tenner at 159/1 on Vento and 39/1 for the place - wonder if it will get matched?
Have to agree that Al Malek looks an interesting option but what put me off him was the fact he's gone from a hard ridden 4 lengths victory against Derivatives whose no more than a 65 rated Handicapper to destroying Saphira by 14 lengths.
Not a fan of wide margin winners myself, always shorter in the betting next time out and in cases over rated for a good 5 runs after.
I would also love to know how this horse escaped Freddy Head if he could be this good! not sold as a yearling and ended up in Germany, of course that's subjective but makes you wonder.
Will gladly eat any humble pie later this afternoon but that's where I stand on him.
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On a side note, how long does it take for the French markets to get going on Betfair?
I've tried a cheeky tenner at 159/1 on Vento and 39/1 for the place - wonder if it will get matched?
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