Frost vs Dunne

Tom Scudamore not exactly covering himself with glory in 'interview' with Pershad in the extract being shown on a SM outlet. Another one if wasn't called Scudamore wouldn't have a career as a jockey at all.
 
you lost me g,-g Tom Scu is a t pop class jockey and there's no saying he wouldn't have been if he had not had a famous dad...Jonjo never planned for his son to be a jockey but the boy never stopped dreaming he would be one someday...true more chance of getting into the game if your connected but no there are thousands of sons and daughters that have no interest in following in dad's footsteps and couldn't no matter how hard they tried...
 
I said Pop class not top class:lol: wish I could have a some eggnog but Doc still says no.:cool:

I just happen to like Scu as a jockey as he very seldom lets me down when I occasionally back him
to be fair David Pipe's strike rate has ben poor of late and for the most part you are only as good as the horses you get to ride

According to Francome they are all shyte and only Rachael and Bryony got a good mention from him.:)
 
I have a certain sympathy with Francome’s stance, tbh.

I think most jockeys are much of a muchness, really. It’s only the top-end guys that can genuinely make a difference, and I’ve probably been spoiled in that regard. Richard Dunwoody was the gaffer when I started watching racing, and since then I’v been lucky enough to see some really great pilots.

AP McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Norman Williamson, Davy Russell, Adrian Maguire and Paul Carberry, are the ones I would call genuinely elite over the years, with the next echelon being occupied by the likes of Barry Geraghty, Timmy Murphy, Rachel Blackmore, probably Paul Townend, and possibly Richard Johnson (on a going day).

After that, and you’re entering generic territory, I think, and Tom Scu would be lumped in there - somewhere between the top 60-75% best, but likely no more. Bryan Cooper would be someone I’d have toward the higher end of that scale, to give you a point of reference.

Not really on-topic but there you go.
 
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I\d have Barry Geraghty before Adrian McGuire and Paul Carberry in a flash'

Are you wearing those I hate Nicky Henderson glasses again:lol:


Brian Geraghty was praised to the high heavens by his fellow jockeys for having the knack of always being in the right place at the right time.

He was chosen by JP and Nicky Henderson to follow in AP's footsteps and what a great job he did...

He had one of the highest strike rates in the history of National Hunt races of 24% over a 5 year period

Rode almost 2000 winners 4 Champion Hurdle Winners 2 Gold Cup Winners 5 QMCC winnesr and was the chosen jockey for 2 of the best horses ever to grace the turf in Moscow Flyer and Sprinter Sacre

Second only to Ruby with 43 winners at the Festival won 65 grade 1 chases and 54 grade 1 hurdle races.

Next echelon yer balls��
 
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You sort of miss my point, Fist (no sh*it?). :cool:

Geraghty got on plenty of good horses - no dispute - but he was never really ever the difference between winning and losing on a horse, in the way that the top-echelon jockeys were…..imho.
 
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Grasshopper said:
You sort of miss my point, Fist (no sh*it?). :cool:

Geraghty got on plenty of good horses - no dispute - but he was never really ever the difference between winning and losing on a horse, in the way that the top-echelon jockeys were…..imho.
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Rather than style/piloting (some just appear more graceful) an elite jock has a mindset of ice and the attitude of a cold blodded assasin

To this extent, Barry is in the top top class
 
Grasshopper said:
Geraghty got on plenty of good horses - no dispute - but he was never really ever the difference between winning and losing on a horse, in the way that the top-echelon jockeys were…..imho.
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For me, latterly, few rode Cheltenham (on a job horse) better than Geraghty.
 
The top ones rarely lose races they should have won and often win races they should have lost. I think Geraghty was well up there on the first and a little less so on the second. Top table overall.
 
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I think McCoy's grit, determination, perserverance and all round psis and vinegar style of riding deflected from some weaknesses. I'd have him towards the top of the second group.
 
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Totally agree with Francome here

Overall quality of NH jockeys since the high profile retirements is poor

Different story on the flat though, a real golden era atm here and in the US

Like all sports it's a cyclical thing
 
Does Francome define what good jockeyship is?

I have to say, looking back at some of the jockeys through the second half of the last century, they look like cowboys compared to modern jockeys.
 
Grasshopper said:
You sort of miss my point, Fist (no sh*it?). :cool:

Geraghty got on plenty of good horses - no dispute - but he was never really ever the difference between winning and losing on a horse, in the way that the top-echelon jockeys were…..imho.
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What your missing is there's more than one way to skin a cat. Francome was perhaps the greatest horseman of all time to ride in NH racing and like Geraghty had that knack of being in the right place at the right time, mainly because he could present a horse at a fence better than anyone. Put him up against someone like Jonjo let alone AP and he would lose 9/10. While not as good Nico is in the same mould with great timing which more than makes up for his weakness in a finish. looking way back David Mould and Johnny Haines were very stylish and compact in a finish yet Paddy Broderick and Pat Taffe were like sacks of potatoes but terrific horsemen...Ruby was to my mind the best I ever saw he had the horsemanship of Francome the style of David Mould and could hold his own against any jockey you care to mention in a finish..
 
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I don't think Prince Charles is a member of this forum Dan lol ,,Broderick was certainly the richest jockey of all time and a damn good fun loving amateur.
 
60AFA45C-DB72-4918-96B5-126EDBC2BD38.jpeg

With The Drunken Duck

Munro-Wilson's riding was famously compared to a man trying to fold a deckchair in a gale but he was unperturbed, observing: "I like to ride like a gentleman, not a monkey on a stick, which is why I rarely take a tumble. Length of leg, that's what it's all about" Racing Post.
 
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Ye have short memories if you think Geraghty was weak in a finish....and comparing him to Nico. Outrageous rubbish being spouted.
 
Who said Barry was weak in a finish? all I said is he wasn't as good as Jonjo or AP which were two of the strongest you could ever hope to see.

Saying someone is similar in the way they present a horse at a fence or have a tendancy to be at the right place at the right time is not comparing their overall abilities.

If anyone is spouting rubbish it's yourself. Suggesting Nico is rubbish....The man has a strike rate of 23% he rides for one of the top 4 trainers in the UK and Ireland

Sure he's no Ruby Walsh but he was entrusted the ride on Sprinter Sacre because of his excellent horsemanship and never put a foot wrong and won 12 races on Altior.
 
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