Happy Slapping

Originally posted by 221bar1@May 17 2005, 01:43 PM
Quote Kathy " I think we would all agree that none of us on this forum are violent"

I cannot see anyway you can presume that and had some of the spats on here been face to face....
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I was trying to be diplomatic 221bar1 :D
 
What I find particularly scarey is how much I appreciate it when I meet a well mannered child. That cannot be right. Children (my Mum always told me) should be seen and not heard. I have to admit some of my friends children are positively scarey, with one 4 year constantly in trouble for slapping other children at playschool. :blink: You can only imagine what he may be like when he is in his teens. He has young thug written all over him at the moment. :blink:
 
Sheikh M is certainly a better actor.Wayne's involvement in McCarthyite witchhunts seem to me to deserve the label " Nasty piece of work " coupled with his total inability to act .
 
Originally posted by Kathy@May 17 2005, 03:33 PM
What I find particularly scarey is how much I appreciate it when I meet a well mannered child.
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It's the same with tradesmen. When you come accross one that does the job properly and doesn't try to rip you off on price you feel as though he should be canonised.
 
Have you read about the new punishment they have for our UK thugs. They are discussing dressing them in orange or yellow boiler suits in the UK and sending them out to sweep the roads or clear litter to allow people to see who they are - and sneer at them if they want to? Evidently, they have trialled this in some States in the USA and it has been highly successful and the percentage of re offenders has been significantly reduced.
 
Fortunately, this cretinous idea from the moron in chief at the Home Office the ghastly Hazel Blears has swiftly been binned - I imagine she has been given a not so happy slap .

The likely result would be vigilantism and mass failure to comply with community service orders .
 
I take it you don't agree with the "idea" Ardross? :unsure: B)

I was thinking they could roll the "idea" out into schools and playgroups as well :D
 
I have no quibble with school uniform , however the little urchins surely don't deserve orange boiler suits .
 
Okay, okay, maybe orange is a bit 70s? Perhaps Spring lilac, with a switch to autumnal khaki from October? Cargo isn't a total no-no yet, so we could do that, and maybe a half-elasticated waist, if they're going to have to do icky things like bending a bit to pick up litter? And how about some neat baseball caps in matching tones, so they can still keep a bit of street cred?
 
Originally posted by Wassermusik+May 17 2005, 10:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wassermusik @ May 17 2005, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Shadow Leader@May 16 2005, 11:49 PM


I don't really want to get into the smacking debate again but I firmly believe that especially for young children, smacking serves a good purpose.  The threat of a slap on the back of the legs is often enough to remind them to behave and a smack on the back of the legs or the bottom will not harm or hurt them.
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i have got the idea, that people who show some kind of joy in thinking of a "smack" on children - and argueing they have got it themselves when being a child - probably have the same virtual good feelings/longings to some consentual sexual violence in adult partnerships.

no offence meant, i am just wondering... [/b][/quote]
As this comment was clearly directed at me I will respond to it, Wasser. Please enlighten me as to where I have ever shown joy in the idea of giving a child a smack? I believe that it is a necessary evil that will have to be used on occasion in the process of discplining & educating a child. I find that your notion of people who smack children being perverts who delight in some kind of sexual sadism out of order, I'm afraid.

QUOTE (Songsheet @ May 17 2005, 10:26 AM)
There is a world of difference between smacking and hitting -


No, there ist NOT.
(you only invent this to justify your opinion)
the principle here is: it is hurting one persons physical integrity (and most bad if this person is a child).
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Again, insinuating that people are lying in order to make themselves feel better is alo pretty resentful, too. If you are talking about hurting a person's integrity does this mean that you should let children get on with whatever they want to do and not tell them off? Surely, even telling them off is hurting their integrity?

- those mentioned by Melendez as most "obnoxious, cheeky, badly behaved " children ... are not those who slap others in their face later on. i agree, that they are hard to bear, but it is another social group to those who use violence as adults. (mostly they happen to be your boss in a future employment...)
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I disagree totally. Most of the violent thugs about are those who were not disciplined early on in life, or taught to respect other people. That is where the problem lies.

Can I also point out again (although I may as well just bang my head on a brick wall instead, for all the good this will do) that I do not condone violence at all and there is a massive difference between a slap on the back of a leg & 'hitting' a child.

I seriously believe that in the long run, it is a far greater act of cruelty not to discipline your child than to discipline them. Surely, if you are bringing up a child, you want to bring them up to be a decent, respectful, well-mannered individual and if that involves them receiving the occasional smack when they are small children then so be it. I'd far rather that than be someone who daren't tell their child off, or touch them, with the result that the child grows up with no respect for anyone or anything.

Yes, this is a contentious subject about which people will not change their minds but whilst I am essentially being called a sadistic pervert and being accused of lying to justify myself then I will answer those comments. It really is ridiculous that this subject always degenerates into insults rather than debating the point.
 
I might be entirely wrong here, but I am guessing that Wasser's "consentual sexual violence" refers to the issuing of a smack to the behind, a practice which would not be uncommon amongst non-perverted persons.

It's an interesting theory, but not necessarily one which holds much water. Until I spoke to a chap in my office who declared that he was soundly beaten as a child on a regular basis and, most interestingly, is fully up for the issuing of smacks to ladies behinds whilst engaging err, with them. Not sure that a straw poll of one consists of a valid sample though.
 
One thing I do find amusing about this is that there seems to be (from an admittedly tiny number) a general concensus among us wimmin folk that smacking is at times necessary, while quite a few men on here oppose this view.

Now, if those males have brought up their children on a full-time nurturing basis - ie were the sole carer all day and not just at weekends and evenings, then fair-play to you..

However, if you fulfil the usual male sterotypical role of Dad going out to work, while your wife stays at home to look after the children, then I would allege that you may not be quite of the same mind after going through the 'Terrible Twos' !
 
I'd like to see someone try and happy slap William Munny...

unforgiven.jpg
 
Boy tells WM he's a bounty hunter.

WM: "You're a bounty hunter?"

Boy: "A man's gotta make a living".

WM: "Dying aint no kind of a living boy".

:lol:
 
Bill Munny: "All right now, I'm comin' out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife. All his friends. Burn his damn house down."
 
Ahhh... those were the days. I've always had a slight hankering after having lived in the wild, wild, West - as long as I could've been the best gunslinger around, or the best cattle rustler, or the most prosperous Madam... "I used to be called Snow White, but I drifted..." Words to live by, indeed.
 
Originally posted by Songsheet@May 18 2005, 09:13 AM
One thing I do find amusing about this is that there seems to be (from an admittedly tiny number) a general concensus among us wimmin folk that smacking is at times necessary, while quite a few men on here oppose this view.
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Having helped my wife to raise three sons I can say quite sincerely that I don't feel light slapping as a form of discipline is wrong.

Many years ago when I first had children and worked I always felt that women folk had it fairly easy at home, shopping and caring for children, at least compared to the job I had and the hours I put in every day. Then as fortune would have it I was off work for a couple of months due to an injury and I have to say it opened my eyes as to what our other halves have to cope with. The day to day grind of endless shopping, cleaning, cooking and bringing up kids, suddenly I was a part of it all and I can honestly say I was glad to get back to work.

My two eldest sons in their twenties was brought up with love and discipline, they were praised for good behaviour and got a good telling off (and yes, sometimes a smack on the legs) when they misbehaved and sent off to bed. That was of course before a light smack became a crime by parents for which you could be arrested.

My youngest son now 19 - was rarely smacked, it was no longer an acceptable form of punishment and your child was taught that they could infact get the parent locked up for common assault. Parents in my opinion lost control in the home. We were advised by teachers that 'talking' was the first route to take when a child misbehaves, then if that doesn't work try removing treats and grounding them.
My wife and I tried the new forms of discipline and never smacked our youngest, we did the talking bit, the removing of treats and grounding him, we now have a 19 year old who shows only a lack of respect for everyone and everything, he is selfish and turns out a mouthful of abuse every time my wife or I say anything he doesn't like.

As for my two eldest, they couldn't be more different, they both have good jobs as well as being in the Territoral Army, one has recently become a dad himself. They show respect, manners and are certainly not scared of either myself or my wife, they also know they are loved but know not to abuse it.

I haven't got a clue how to handle my 19 year old, my wife and I have tried everything, he still lives at home, does casual work when he feels like it and lives his life how he wants to regardless of the consequences. Only last Christmas he went out to town drinking and ended being arrested for criminal damage, he got a fine for £340 which he hasn't paid and was banned from town centre pubs for two years, I can't help but wonder if he had been raised like our other two sons from an early age whether his life as well as that of my wife and myself would have been so different.

I do not condone abusing children, people who beat up their kids or neglect them deserve a severe punishment in return but from my own personal experience light smacking does teach right from wrong. So I guess for my wife and I, as the song goes "Two out of three aint bad"

Now - is anyone interested in adopting a 19 year old willing to do nothing? All offers seriously condsidered :huh:

Mark
 
A very telling post, Mark.

Not sure in your youngest son's case that it was just down to the lack of "slapping".

Probably a combination of that and the climate prevalent at the time.

By the way, I am surprised that you and your wife were influenced by outside opinion when you obviously were doing it the "right way" with you first two.

Colin
 
Change your door locks, put his gear out on the road in black bags, and tell him that as he's now, according to the government, an adult, you are not responsible for how he runs his life. Don't pay off any of his fines, don't feed him, don't house him. If he only manages a bit of casual work now and then, I assume you've bankrolled the difference? So, let him doss uncomfortably with his pals, forage for meals, and not have any beer money.

Reclaim your lives, reclaim your own home, reclaim your self-respect, and get rid of this petty tyrant. He's an adult - let him start living like one. The short, sharp shock treatment may remind him that he's living with you because you WANT him to: if he won't live with you and your wife in a respectful manner, then stop letting him get away without consequences to his actions. If you keep him at home and put up with crap from him, it's either because you're a bit afraid of him, or are still over-protective ("what will happen to him if he leaves?") - so decide to let him out of your cosy cage of protection, and make his own way. Whatever he does, it's HIS choice - the way he's running the show at the moment means he's got you, his Mum, and your house, as his safety net to fall back on, while he goes out to make a pest of himself to others and treat you like doormats. Where's YOUR choice in all this?

If he says you're acting as if you don't love him, assure him you love him a lot, you just don't like him. And you don't have to put up with people (regardless of their relationship to you) that you don't like. And ask if being disrespectful to you and his mother shows HIS love for you both? Try it some time and see the difference! ;)
 
We've all been subject to peer pressure, Colin and it's often no different when we're in our thirties/forties than it was in the playground! I can also understand that no one should actively like to slap their child, so when, as happened, the perceived opinion became one of 'reasoning' first and removing all treats/grounding rather than slapping then it also becomes an attractive option and parents are keen to try it.

I still maintain that it's virtually impossible to actually reason with with most pre-school kids successfully - and often with kids under 10 (ish) at a certain level.

A case in point only last night. I was at an appointment for my nails with a mother of six. Hollly is a real worker and her kids are, in general, a real pleasure to meet. She does try to reason wherever possible and she's a great mother but, on occasion, she admits to the odd slap on the back of the leg for the the younger ones (obviously NOT babies/toddlers!). Her 11yo son is, at the moment, going through a particularly rebellious phase and Holly told him very acidly the other day that while she loved him completely, she really didn't like him much!

Now, Tom is a pretty average 11yo but he couldn't grasp the difference and got extremely upset thinking his mother hated him! You'd think an 11yo could understand the difference but that would be an incorrect assumption. Sometimes, reasoning can make matters a whole lot worse!
 
Yes, ideally. But there are a lot of parents out there without the necessary skills of articulating, or even thinking, that, Brian, as I'm sure you're aware. Not that I'm implying they're thick, or ill-educated, or too young, either - there are plenty of singularly unpleasant kids belonging to well-off, bright parents, who thought they'd had their offspring at the 'right' time in life!

But I think that at 19, you're out of the 'kid' phase, especially today, and you're not likely to respond other than with laughter to being told your comics or Big Mac will be witheld for a week!

Maybe, on top of parenting skills, we should in one way become more like the Americans, and teach 'citizenship' skills, too. I don't want to see a country of horribly twee, sterile robots, but certainly there's no sense that Britain expects from its' young people what every MAMMAL teaches its' offspring: respect for BOUNDARIES, HIERARCHIES, and how to behave cooperatively. It's right that there should be a loss of false deference, but nihilism is not the answer - something must fill the void for the common good, and there has to be a deference to certain social, humane, issues. Since much of the West has lost the most basic instincts to instil anything but impulsive self-indulgence in its' offspring, we can hardly be surprised when it all turns round to bite us very hard in the bum, can we?
 
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