Irish 2000 Guineas

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Bar the Bull said:
There is also the distance problem. I said after the Greenham that he would be a good sprinter, and the Guineas didn't change my mind. But people I respect, and Steve M, believe he needs 10-12f, so I just don't know.

Monster performances are hard to follow up.
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To do what he did on a track that:
A) Isn't a great course for front runners, and
B) Is a straight mile where a horse doesn't get a breather..

suggests that 10f round a turn would be no bother whatsover. I'd like to see Canford try and catch him in the Sussex and then a clash with So You Think and Workforce (doubtful obviously) in the Juddmonte.

These clashes need to happen for the sports sake.
 
Sheikh said:
not 12f anymore Steve ?
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Yes 12 furlongs, absolutely Sheikh! ...but he's going to miss the Derby which is a gut wrenching calamity and I'm not keen on him taking on the older horses at any distance just yet.

So I'm resigned to the St James's Palace and being realistic the Juddmonte International would be the best I could hope for at a good enough time to take on the older horses.
 
SteveM said:
Yes 12 furlongs, absolutely Sheikh! ...but he's going to miss the Derby which is a gut wrenching calamity and I'm not keen on him taking on the older horses at any distance just yet.
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Would you not be a bit concerned about him running at Epsom on firm ground given his size. I'd hate to see him get badly jarred up.
 
There is also the distance problem. I said after the Greenham that he would be a good sprinter, and the Guineas didn't change my mind. But people I respect, and Steve M, believe he needs 10-12f, so I just don't know.
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He doddled a top mile at 2. There cant have been too many horses who found that their max at 3
 
Euronymous said:
Would you not be a bit concerned about him running at Epsom on firm ground given his size. I'd hate to see him get badly jarred up.
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I would a bit... But this seems to apply to several of them and missing what looks to me a wide open Derby will be a really big missed opportunity.
 
Mozart doddled races over 7f at two, but dropping him back didn't do him any harm.

I think Frankel's optimum trip is 1m. I think he would win the July Cup in the absence of a horse like Mozart, Oasis Dream or Choisir. Indeed I would fancy him more over 6f than I would over 12f. He might win a G1 over 1m4f, but not against top opposition like Workforce or So You Think.
 
While he's clearly got speed, to run the way he did at Newmarket is a real test of stamina also. He'd win the Derby very well.
 
Quite a few horses have been dropped back from their 2 year old distances (Adjal is another that springs to mind) but not so much when they are clear top of the tree. More because they can dominate the sprinters rather than the milers +
 
I'd fancy him over 1m 4f and lay him over 5f. It shocks me that some 'judges' think 6f is his best trip including page two of today's Racing Post written by Graham Dench.
 
Watching it again I think perhaps Hughes had a point - the horse does not really make any inroads into ROC's lead for a furlong despite being strongly ridden but then picked up inside the last.
 
I agree with euro in so far as its that course and sometimes muddling field that bothers more than the distance. Hes a big striding type and probably tempermentally needs a bit of space. Not ideal

Its right to step him up gradually although a small field KGV must be tempting
 
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