Irish Apprentice Title

Good summing up, m'learned friend...

And whether anyone likes it or not, that is the owner/trainer's prerogative - or that of friends of Joseph's father.
 
Cantoris said:
Smullen finished second on him in Dundalk and said he hit the front too early, two furlongs out. While there was another horse beside him he was a few horses away from him. Horse runs around the place and is chinned on the line. Smullen says he needs to be held up to inside the final furlong.

Beggy rides him next time in Navan. Takes it up a furlong and a half out. Inside final furlong, is three lenghts in front of the horse that eventually dead heats with him but stops in front.

Smullen back on at Leopardstown and arguably the perfect race, taking it up inside the 200 yard mark and winning going away.

Smullen again on at Dundalk and takes it up at the furlong pole as he's afraid the horse a few inside him is going to get first run. Idles in front.

Smullen rides in Gowran and takes it up inside the final furlong.

Fairyhouse, O'Brien takes it up one and a half furlongs out, just like Beggy and nearly had the same result of a dead heat having been clear a furlong out. Ok I agree the dead heat might only have been due to the easing up.

He needs to be produced inside the final furlong. Even look at his last hurdle start in Down Royal where he takes it up going well two out and stops on the run in and gets chinned on the line. He's a very idle horse and it's why he keeps on winning. Plus they have sorted out his ailments.
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So what where his instructions Cantoris ?
 
Sheikh said:
So what where his instructions Cantoris ?
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Take your time. He has loads of speed. Put him in front inside the furlong pole. I was chatting about him with Colm on Sat morning, saying hw much he had improved and he said it's partially down to his improved well being after a change of training, and riding him differently. What messed O'Brien up a little was that Park Ranger stopped in front on the ground. But he panicked too, which I guess is understandable for an apprentice but if he's top notch, he needs to learn to relax. He certainly relaxed in the last hundred yards!
 
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If O'Brien had of kept riding him out I am sure he would have won by around a length or so. It was his error in pulling the horse up rather than timing that was the main issue.
 
I think that in general the lad gets a lot of unfair criticism. Any apprentice will make mistakes but his get magnified because of who he is. Of course he has got opportunities in big races that he wouldn't otherwise have got, but in fairness he has won a lot of races this season for outside stables.
 
Cantoris said:
Take your time. He has loads of speed. Put him in front inside the furlong pole. I was chatting about him with Colm on Sat morning, saying hw much he had improved and he said it's partially down to his improved well being after a change of training, and riding him differently. What messed O'Brien up a little was that Park Ranger stopped in front on the ground. But he panicked too, which I guess is understanding for an apprentice but if he's top notch, he needs to learn to relax. He certainly relaxed in the last hundred yards!
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He seems to have trouble following instructions.
Carroll is a class act and will be a top jockey.
 
With four winners for Aiden it must have been a good day.

Even Charles got in on the act...
 
Today's successes at The Curragh put him level on 33 wins with both Ben Curtis and current apprentice champion Gary Carroll.

He has some hearings with the Stewards however and that may cost him a few days suspension.

With the season winding down now I think his Dad will load him up with rides (Especially at Dundalk) to win the title of Champion Apprentice.
 
Pretty likely really, Powerscourt.

O'Brien has improved out of all recognition in a pretty short time frame. Fair balls to him. That said, I don't think any of the three vying for the apprentice title are anywhere near as good as Danny Mullins.
 
Sheikh said:
It would be a travesty if Joseph won.
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Utter nonsense and that sort of talk is being spouted far too easily including by his rivals who really should know better. Gary Carroll is a super jockey but I hear of no comment about the huge advantage he has over everyone else in being with Halford who regularly produces the Champion apprentices due to his support?

O'Brien is clearly getting plenty of support from his father (but he has also ridden as many winners for Pat Flynn) but if the 16 year old lad wins it he will deserve it as much as anyone else.
 
Galileo said:
Utter nonsense and that sort of talk is being spouted far too easily including by his rivals who really should know better. Gary Carroll is a super jockey but I hear of no comment about the huge advantage he has over everyone else in being with Halford who regularly produces the Champion apprentices due to his support?

O'Brien is clearly getting plenty of support from his father (but he has also ridden as many winners for Pat Flynn) but if the 16 year old lad wins it he will deserve it as much as anyone else.
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Ah right, it's a conspiracy against the O'Briens.

The huge advantage with Halford ! A cursory glance at the stats show Halford has trained a whopping 31 winners this Season to O'Briens 99.

Joseph also gets rides he would never normally get because of who is Father is. Those rides he gets from Flynn where Carrolls last year.

Caroll is simply a far superior jockey. ' Utter nonsense ' Bah !
 
Hannigan winning the Championship would be a travesty presumably - he is hardly the best jockey in the UK?

Halford regularly produces the Champion Apprentices due to his support for them once he decides on who his apprentice is. Ask any apprentice in Ireland who they would want to be with and you'll get your answer.

Carroll is the better jockey - but year in year out the best do not win the Championships.
 
Galileo said:
Hannigan winning the Championship would be a travesty presumably - he is hardly the best jockey in the UK?

Halford regularly produces the Champion Apprentices due to his support for them once he decides on who his apprentice is. Ask any apprentice in Ireland who they would want to be with and you'll get your answer.
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The jockey title in the Uk is not comparable seeing as the best jocks aren't trying to win it.

Halford gets the best young Jocks (bar Berry who was a flute but has improved slightly)

Carroll is the better jockey - but year in year out the best do not win the Championships.
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And when the best don't win it's a shame, when the best work harder and still don't win it's a travesty. O'Brien 256 - Carroll 361 rides.
 
Galileo said:
Hannigan winning the Championship would be a travesty presumably - he is hardly the best jockey in the UK?

Halford regularly produces the Champion Apprentices due to his support for them once he decides on who his apprentice is. Ask any apprentice in Ireland who they would want to be with and you'll get your answer.

Carroll is the better jockey - but year in year out the best do not win the Championships.
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You mean Hanagan.
 
G-G said:
I would say it is a rare event when the 'best' jockey riding wins he championship on the flat at least.
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Nowadays maybe but not in the past when there was so much less racing

Richards,Breasley, Piggott,Carson,Eddery,Mercer, Cauthen..... won just about all from the mid 40s to the late 80s between them .
 
Ardross said:
Nowadays maybe but not in the past when there was so much less racing

Richards,Breasley, Piggott,Carson,Eddery,Mercer, Cauthen..... won just about all from the mid 40s to the late 80s between them .
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Maybe, but personally I wouldn't agree with some of those named as being the best at the time they won titles.
 
Richards was plainly the best
Breasley and Piggott were both top notch in the early 60s
Piggott was peerless from 1964-71 - true he was better than Carson but could not be arsed chasing round the country for more titles in the 70s .
Eddery was best or second best to Piggott in his pomp as was Cauthen and Mercer only won once when HRAC had an awesome year .

These were the best or top two or three jockeys though - something that cannot be said of Spencer, Sanders ,Darley or Hanagan
 
Ardross said:
Richards was plainly the best
Breasley and Piggott were both top notch in the early 60s
Piggott was peerless from 1964-71 - true he was better than Carson but could not be arsed chasing round the country for more titles in the 70s .
Eddery was best or second best to Piggott in his pomp as was Cauthen and Mercer only won once when HRAC had an awesome year .

These were the best or top two or three jockeys though - something that cannot be said of Spencer, Sanders ,Darley or Hanagan
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Interesting. I often wonder whether Cauthen is up to his repuation. I've never seen a race he has ridden in but I've heard everything about him. I doubt todays jockeys bar Spencer will be talked about in 20 years.

Of course the talk will be "That Spencer, he only went and held up....."
 
The only jockey who regularly wins Group races he shouldn't at the moment is Dettori. His rides on Shamardal and Lawman were a treat to watch. There will never be a better jockey from the front.
 
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