Irish Grand National

swedish chef

swedish chef

At the Start
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Fancy - De Plotting Shed 25/1 in places for this. He has been campaigned to preserve his mark over much shorter distances when bred for stamina. His chase mark compared to his hurdles mark, makes him look extremely well handicapped. He is entered in everything at Cheltenham but the remark trainer makes in stable tour, " I think if he heads to the Festival in optimum shape we could see a career best from him." makes me think they may give the festival a miss with the Irish National on the 2nd April this year. He may be well enough handicapped to do the festival as well?
 
Yes, they often go well in it. I remember Brown Lad winning it as a novice and going on to win the Gold Cup the following season. History just might repeat itself this year.
 
Grey said:
Yes, they often go well in it. I remember Brown Lad winning it as a novice and going on to win the Gold Cup the following season. History just might repeat itself this year.
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Which Gold Cup, Grey? Didn't Brown Lad finish second at Cheltenham?

I think that 3 of the last 4 winners were novices.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Our Duke won it as a novice last season.

Billy Ocean is still black. ;)
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I know Our Duke won it last year..... I meant historically as the various past winners lists I was looking at didn't specify, so it was too much like hard work to investigate!!!

Can't be wasting valuable Cheltenham research time at the moment.

FWIW I've my eye on 2 Novices for it this year [emoji6]

And God Damn that Billy Ocean [emoji1][emoji41]
 
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swedish chef said:
makes me think they may give the festival a miss with the Irish National on the 2nd April this year. He may be well enough handicapped to do the festival as well?
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For what it's worth Gordon confirmed at a preview he would go the novice chase with Davey booked to ride. He also confirmed he wanted dounikos in the 4 miler and jury duty could skip Cheltenham go to the national, but the owners want Dounikos in the RSA and shattered love could end up in a weak JLT.
 
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Novices have a great record in the Irish National. It's always worth taking a good luck at any entered that finish in the first half dozen at the NH Chase at the Festival. I'd look at De Plotting Shed anyway, because he looks as though he's crying out for a trip and is potentially ridiculously well handicapped when he gets one.
 
British runners face the disadvantage of the handicapping system when they go over there. Their UK mark is not adjusted for Irish racing so they end up taking on Irish horses whose marks would be raised if they ran over here.

It's little wonder so few even go over there.
 
Desert Orchid said:
British runners face the disadvantage of the handicapping system when they go over there. Their UK mark is not adjusted for Irish racing so they end up taking on Irish horses whose marks would be raised if they ran over here.

It's little wonder so few even go over there.
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Would have thought the prize money would persuade a few. It must be worth more than double that Sandown race.

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UK trainers not targeting a race as valuable as the Irish Nash, is as daft as them not targeting valuable races in France......though the proximities of the Aintree and Scottish Nationals, likely has some part to play in it.

That's giving them the benefit of the doubt, but the reality is that UK trainers never targeted the valuable DRF meeting either. It is really myopic in terms of race-planning.
 
Desert Orchid said:
British runners face the disadvantage of the handicapping system when they go over there. Their UK mark is not adjusted for Irish racing so they end up taking on Irish horses whose marks would be raised if they ran over here.

It's little wonder so few even go over there.
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I was thinking the same DO, but then looking through past winners, English trainers have won this a good few times. Jonjo won it twice in last 10 years and Bob Buckler also recently and of course Pipe and Pitman in the past too (Possibly the handicap disparity you mention was not as pronounced or relevant 20 years ago?)
 
Grasshopper said:
UK trainers not targeting a race as valuable as the Irish Nash, is as daft as them not targeting valuable races in France......though the proximities of the Aintree and Scottish Nationals, likely has some part to play in it.

That's giving them the benefit of the doubt, but the reality is that UK trainers never targeted the valuable DRF meeting either. It is really myopic in terms of race-planning.
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I agree but it's not helping when they know they'll be at a disadvantage in terms of Ireland. Not targeting French money puzzles me so much more. Maybe the French don't offer travel/appearance incentives.
 
Double Handful said:
I was thinking the same DO, but then looking through past winners, English trainers have won this a good few times. Jonjo won it twice in last 10 years and Bob Buckler also recently and of course Pipe and Pitman in the past too (Possibly the handicap disparity you mention was not as pronounced or relevant 20 years ago?)
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The handicapping disparity, as far as I can tell, has really only happened since Phil Smith took steps to address 'slippage', a good move generally in my opinion but the Irish NH handicapper hasn't kept up. Strange that really isn't any disparity in the Flat ratings.

Jonjo's runners tend to be campaigned like Irish Cheltenham plots.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I agree but it's not helping when they know they'll be at a disadvantage in terms of Ireland. Not targeting French money puzzles me so much more. Maybe the French don't offer travel/appearance incentives.
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I'm in agreement regarding the handicapping disadvantages Dessie but Grass is right in that that doesn't seem to be the reason the British trainers don't go over.

Of the 14 races at the DRF, 7 were Grade 1s and 2 Grade 2s where handicapping doesn't come into it and yet IIRC only regular traveller Simply Ned flew the flag.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I agree but it's not helping when they know they'll be at a disadvantage in terms of Ireland. Not targeting French money puzzles me so much more. Maybe the French don't offer travel/appearance incentives.
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To be fair it'd cost £2,000ish to run at Compiegne, the fences aren't that big and there's plenty of 50k+ races.

UK trainers would much rather run their horses for 5k or for 30k in Graded races, doubt half of them even look at the likes of Dieppe which is literally a ferry ride and a horse box trip of about 2 kilometres away.

Martin
 
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