ISIS...Islamic State Victims

Because he states that we need these migrants

We do not

He also states that the politics and media continually state the the country is going to hell

They do not

Otherwise I may have been harsh but he waffles without offering a firm solution of his own
 
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If I'm reading Clive correctly (which is something I'd rarely admit to) then I think he's referring to the readers comments?

"the subsequent comments to this idiot left wingers views are priceless"

It's not unheard of the Guardian to attract rightist views in much the same way as the Telegraph has socialists posting onto its web page. I know that because every now and then I've done so myself and even managed to get in the top 5 most liked posts once with my suggestion for reinvigorating the banking system, generating jobs, and getting lending going to small business, whilst also taking a swipe at Maoist Dangerous Dave the closet jihadist Cameron
 
clivex said:
Because he states that we need these migrants

We do not
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"I am more relaxed about immigration"

Which personality are you adopting now? I think the article is actually pretty accurate, although I would qualify the need for immigration and perhaps make it skills based rather than a blanket age and energy based requirement. I mean, what do we ask them to demonstrate (a sub 60 seconds 400 metres hurdles?)
 
What do you mean? i dont explain myself but always have had the same view . i am more relaxed about immigration than some other posters but respect their views

But at same time if you relax controls of illegal immigration then it naturally follows you will have a far bigger problem on your doorstep. I would be in line with your view.
 
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I think it's running out of steam a bit Clive, albeit I commend you on the attempt to stir the pot

I personally think Cameron and Sarkozy have a lot to answer for in terms of the latest influx though. We had a working arrangement with the African jump off point to Lampedusa. Then calamity Cameron intervened because he, and he alone (discounting gay Hague who supported him) knew that there was going to be genocidal attrocities in Libya unless they imposed a power vacuum there that was guaranteed to usher in jihadists and create an environment that would spark even more immigration

Sadly they were able to exploit a conscientious stain in the Democrat party over Rwanda and played the card to the extent that Obama was persuaded to pave the way that would then allow the two European countries to do the rest. Had Obama not opened the gate Gadaffi would still be there, and the whole of central north Africa would be a sight more stable today than it is now

Suffice to say, the mass atrocities and burial sites that Cameron said we'd uncover, never materialised. The fig leaf of democracy that he can't seriously have believed he was supporting was quickly blown away, and now all that Dave has succeeded in doing is parking a state on Europe's front door that will gravitate towards the next Syria in time (its on its way) as the non extremist militias (the criminal ones) are losing ground, and on the verge of losing Tripoli now

The consequence is that migration from northern Africa is increasing again. Well done Dave! I actually think we need to impeach Cameron and strip him of his authority to make foreign policy. He's been an absolute disaster and continues to be so now. Clearly I'm better and should be installed today, this evening, or tomorrow at the latest

Where is his strategic brain? does he have one? He seems hopelessly locked in a 1980's world view. He's 47 going on 77. He seems to be under the impression now that our long term interests are best served by picking fights with Russia now in support of what ...? the bloody Ukraine, a country where he's confused a populist protest by neo fascists as pro democracy - again - moron!

Remember he came to power saying how it was a stain on us as a trading nation that we did more with Ireland than the BRIC's? Well so far he's managed to completely alienate the B, has introduced sanctions against the R, and lost a whole load of defence contracts with the I, who called his products "over-priced crap". I think the only thing he's managed to do is sell some processed food to China and get a few JV universities built (which were in the pipeline anyway)
 
Warbler said:
If I'm reading Clive correctly (which is something I'd rarely admit to) then I think he's referring to the readers comments?

"the subsequent comments to this idiot left wingers views are priceless"

It's not unheard of the Guardian to attract rightist views in much the same way as the Telegraph has socialists posting onto its web page. I know that because every now and then I've done so myself and even managed to get in the top 5 most liked posts once with my suggestion for reinvigorating the banking system, generating jobs, and getting lending going to small business, whilst also taking a swipe at Maoist Dangerous Dave the closet jihadist Cameron
Click to expand...

And how would you get lending to small business.?

Genuinely interested and not stirring. It is my line of work (medium businesses more so in truth) and can see both sides.
 
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I'll PM you later this evening Clive, but you'll need to cast your mind back to the days of about 3 years ago when various merlin stimuli or invest to lend schemes were simply being swallowed up by the banks used to plug their own balance sheets or otherwsie lending was simply being rolled over on existing debt rather than new investment. The argument that the government gave for using the banks (that they had presence and systems) was myopic. You'd need to be in government though to have made it work as it was a policy response rather than something that could be set up locally (well it could have been set up locally but the attraction of speed to market wasn't there, unless going my route)

What was moderately amusing on DT's site actually was the amount of approval I got from ertswhile businessmen who wouldn't have had a clue what my own views were. If memory serves me right it was in response to a Halligan piece
 
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Ok mate

Just to put down a couple,of markers...

They couldn't simply take the governments funding for lending schemes (merlin was a guideline) to boost the balance sheet

Even at the worst point of the crisis the uk was rated by the world bank as the easiest country in the world for businesses to get credit. From some cross border brokering I know that we are way ahead of Germany and France at this point and in recent past

I'm no fan of the big four but it's not quite as dismal as some businessmen think. In fact at this point in time it's shifted considerably, especially with the independents
 
It would appear that the murder has been carried out by the same British jihadist as previously.

It interests me though to discover that the percentage of British Muslims travelling abroad for jihad is actually quite lower than would have been thought.
According to a CNN study, surprisingly Finland has the highest percentage of Muslims ( as a percentile of a country's Muslim population) embracing foreign jihad at 0.071% ............. closely followed by Ireland with 0.070%. :blink:
The UK is way down the list on 0.017%

ISIS recruitment is truly a worry on an international scale.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/09/syria-foreign-jihadis/
(scroll down)

and
http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-capita-study-jihadists-syria-islam-1655655-Sep2014/


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Yes I noticed that.

It will be a day to celebrate when jihad john is finally killed. I just hope and pray that there can be a long session of intense "interrogation" first. Will be disappointing if he knows nothing about it

It is also strongly reported that a lot of the kids that have gone out there want out. Quite a few are being held prisoner by isis. Will disappoint scum like Russell brand I suppose
 
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Some stupid commentators have suggested that whatever happens, independence is (that most irritating of words) "inevitable"

Are they so thick that they haven't heard of Quebec? Spring to my mind without prompting so why not some overpaid oxbridge twat on a national newspaper? Can also cite regions in Spain where the demand has certainly mellowed

There will be more devolution (higher taxes) but the west Lothian question has to be addressed once and for all in return. No hand wringing and excuses now

Personally I believe the country would be better off more integrated, not less. More layers of government are costs with no benefit. There is a lot of talk about how the scots want more "social democracy" (nice and vague) but I really do wonder when push comes to shove. What would be best for all areas of this nation would be for Scotland to motor ahead with an enterprising economy rather than thinking all about how to level more taxes. It needs it (see my earlier post) and the drain of talent to London (welcome as it is) is to my eyes and experience is far more than from anywhere else in the uk.
 
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clivex said:
There will be more devolution (higher taxes) but the west Lothian question has to be addressed once and for all in return. No hand wringing and excuses now
Click to expand...

You realise that very few people actually believe there will be more devolution as a result of the previous reneging on similar promises by the Tories? (Except those with cotton wool for brains)
 
clivex said:
It is also strongly reported that a lot of the kids that have gone out there want out.
Click to expand...
Awww. Bless their little cotton socks.
So they miss Mum and their Playstations?

The cliche comes to mind -- "made their bed, lie on it".
Or, in their case, hopefully,................ die on it.

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I'm not sure why Commander Clive would ever imagine that IS would let them return? They'd have to be totally derelict in tactical accumun to do that. Even MI5 could work out what to do in that case
 
I don't get why you have such a problem with mi5

They inflitrated the ira to the extent that it had to bring the single mother killer to the table and they have kept a pretty strong lid on Islamists attacks in the uk. We all expected more than we saw after 7/7 didnt we?

Anyway, I might not be so harsh abou the buffoons that went to fight for isis after being coerced by various imams but what happens to them now? Right to say that isis will not allow them to flee and will probably execute the ones held prisoner now.

If so then perversely that would not be a bad thing in terms of perhaps making some gullible idiots think about signing up
 
So far as I can gather Clive, just about every attack that's been thwarted in the UK has been uncovered by a foreign intelligence agency, notably the photocopier bomb at EMA, which was French and Pakistan who spotted it (we'd actually allowed the whole thing in)

MI5 did identify the threat to flight number BA233 and Jack Straw duly sent tanks off to Heathrow for a week (before withdrawing them without explanation). It would later emerge the 233 was a UN resolution that was being referenced in chatrooms (so if you read this in GCHQ don't waste money sending tanks round to the airports on my behest pelase). They also made complete arses themselves in Libya (wider role for SIS rather than MI5) when they explained that mass graves and attrocities were taking place (they weren't). I'm not so sure they're that up on the game Clive

It was MI5 of course who adopted the policy of Londonistan in the belief that we could better monitor islamist activity were the leaders on our own doorstep. Well I don't think any sane minded person could claim that's been a success. The only defence you have is that we can't know for certain what the alternative might look like
 
I would agree with the last part but surely the first simply isn't true. How would foreign agencies stop a purely domestic attack and without doubt there has been more than one plan since 7/7
 
Such attacks are normally planned internationally which means there's a traffic between the attack team in the field and the controllers behind them. Monitoring the remote ringleaders helps to identify individual plots as does piecing things together as very often one small piece can lead into a bigger plot.

The two big plots we know about that have been thwarted were the attempts to bring down 10 jets over the Atlantic (ISI uncovered this one and tipped MI5 off - we hadn't found it) and the photo copier bomb that came out of Yemen as a result of French tourtuing of a detainee. Again we wouldn't have found it. Even when the photocopier was searched we gave it the all clear, it was only French insistance that we look again that led to MI5 finding it

There is a background to things like Snowden, Assange and Chilcot and that concerns threats made against the UK by foreign governments to withdraw their co-operation in telling us what's going on in our own country

You can rattle on about the IRA if you want Clive, but in terms of scale the IRA was infinitely smaller and nowhere near as wealthy as the Islamist groups that have rich sheikhs behind them. Geographically they were operational in a much smaller area too. Did MI5 with the combined forces of the UK's government behind it really do that good a job?. Let's just say an awful lot of bombs seemed to go off with a frightening regularity from Belfast, to Brighton and Birmingham along the way for good measure. I think you could easily argue that they gave the impression of not having a scooby at times.

They came within a whisker of assassinating a Prime Minister and would have kidnapped a member of the royal family if she hadn't protected herself.
 
IRA have absolutely no relevance in an ISIS dialogue. That kind of chat is best left to another thread....or more likely, best left alone.

Good to see Arab/Islamic states prepared to invest some 'treasure' in tackling ISIS. They appear to be coming to the party much earlier than I expected - which is to be welcomed.

Let's hope that they're as keen to tackle Cause as much as they apparently are Effect.
 
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I've just watched The Flames Of War -- the "documentary" released by Islamic State on Friday -- and I feel very dirtied and soiled by the experience.
They truly are a evil death cult. The casualness with which they kill is and the way they extol the killings is stomach churning. It is upsetting to see Syrian Army prisoners being video-ed digging their own graves in the full knowledge of their impending death and then being dispatched with a bullet to the back of the head. It is nothing less than war-crimes being filmed and distributed in a video-game format.
The entire video is a hour-long propaganda piece with very high production values and slick editing. But the highlighted atrocities make for the grimmest of viewing. I feel contaminated for having watched it.

This gang of butchers need to be eliminated from the surface of the earth.


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