ISIS...Islamic State Victims

trackside528 said:
But Muslim Imam's in the UK have condemned ISIS
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Some of them have. Not all, not by a long shot.
One must ask oneself how all these youth in Britain are becoming radicalised. The answer in part is due to the agitprop they're being fed by extremist imams/preachers in some mosques.

I cannot recall saying that lawyers supported ISIS ?
But I will question where are the Warsi's and George Galloway's who are so vocal against Israel, when real monstrous atrocities are occurring?

Introducing Israel into the debate is valid, seeing as they too are battling Islamist jihadism in the guise of Hamas. Hamas is not so different from ISIS in terms of their ultimate objective -- to destroy and "bury" everyone and any entity that they disagree with. Anyone who doesn't see this has their head in the sand.
 
clivex said:
Since when did he say that lawyers were supporting isis? Or anything about "lack of support" for Israel?

And accusing of twisting comments when that is inferred...

The point about protests is entirely valid. And never answered
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The comment about human-rights lawyers was facetious.

On protests, what would be the point of anyone protesting against ISIS or their atrocities? It would be a complete waste of time. Israel is a democracy (with which the UK has a close relationship), and hence protests could ostensibly impact upon their decision-making. ISIS is a proto-state with which the UK has no relationship whatsoever, and has already demonstrated that they don't give two shits about what others make of them.
 
and they also want wiping out IceB..they alone though not babies...get in and take then out,,for the 10th time thats been answered but not acknowledged by you or Clive

you and Clive seem to think that people agree with murderers depending on which tribe are dying,,,when in fact most sane people just don't care who it is..if innocents die for no reason its wrong,,worrying about what galloway and a few others think seems to consume your arguments,,,stop worrying about it,,,they daft like those they support..from the comfort of their cozy existences

its simple really,,kill the killers...not people who live near em

would you like it jf you had a drug den on your street and other gang blew the whole street of houses up ...because its the same thing..dragging innocent people into sad macho actions that ought to have died out years ago.
 
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icebreaker said:
Some of them have. Not all, not by a long shot.
One must ask oneself how all these youth in Britain are becoming radicalised. The answer in part is due to the agitprop they're being fed by extremist imams/preachers in some mosques.

I cannot recall saying that lawyers supported ISIS ?
But I will question where are the Warsi's and George Galloway's who are so vocal against Israel, when real monstrous atrocities are occurring?

Introducing Israel into the debate is valid, seeing as they too are battling Islamist jihadism in the guise of Hamas. Hamas is not so different from ISIS in terms of their ultimate objective -- to destroy and "bury" everyone and any entity that they disagree with. Anyone who doesn't see this has their head in the sand.
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Good post
 
icebreaker said:
Some of them have. Not all, not by a long shot.
One must ask oneself how all these youth in Britain are becoming radicalised. The answer in part is due to the agitprop they're being fed by extremist imams/preachers in some mosques.

I cannot recall saying that lawyers supported ISIS ?
But I will question where are the Warsi's and George Galloway's who are so vocal against Israel, when real monstrous atrocities are occurring?

Introducing Israel into the debate is valid, seeing as they too are battling Islamist jihadism in the guise of Hamas. Hamas is not so different from ISIS in terms of their ultimate objective -- to destroy and "bury" everyone and any entity that they disagree with. Anyone who doesn't see this has their head in the sand.
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There are roughly 2.75 million Muslims in the UK (or so Wikipedia tells me) - would be interested in knowing how many have been radicalised. Expecting all Muslim Imams to come out and condemn or support any group is ludicrous (as it would be in any religion). I'm not denying by any means that some are preaching jihad etc - they clearly are.

The comparison between Hamas and ISIS is ludicrous, apart from one central fact - both of these are strategic and very rational organisations. As unpalatable as it may be to say, beheading a journalist does serve a strategic purpose for ISIS. These guys are the worst sort of thugs - but they aren't irrational lunatics.

The sooner we can get beyond the ideology and propaganda surrounding these groups, the sooner we can have a proper debate about what is driving these groups, rather than wasting time wondering why Muslims aren't protesting loudly enough or where George Galloway stands on this.
 
icebreaker said:
Some of them have. Not all, not by a long shot.
One must ask oneself how all these youth in Britain are becoming radicalised. The answer in part is due to the agitprop they're being fed by extremist imams/preachers in some mosques.

I cannot recall saying that lawyers supported ISIS ?
But I will question where are the Warsi's and George Galloway's who are so vocal against Israel, when real monstrous atrocities are occurring?

Introducing Israel into the debate is valid, seeing as they too are battling Islamist jihadism in the guise of Hamas. Hamas is not so different from ISIS in terms of their ultimate objective -- to destroy and "bury" everyone and any entity that they disagree with. Anyone who doesn't see this has their head in the sand.
Click to expand...

There are roughly 2.75 million Muslims in the UK (or so Wikipedia tells me) - would be interested in knowing how many have been radicalised. Expecting all Muslim Imams to come out and condemn or support any group is ludicrous (as it would be in any religion). I'm not denying by any means that some are preaching jihad etc - they clearly are.

The comparison between Hamas and ISIS is ludicrous, apart from one central fact - both of these are strategic and very rational organisations. As unpalatable as it may be to say, beheading a journalist does serve a strategic purpose for ISIS. These guys are the worst sort of thugs - but they aren't irrational lunatics.

The sooner we can get beyond the ideology and propaganda surrounding these groups, the sooner we can have a proper debate about what is driving these groups, rather than wasting time wondering why Muslims aren't protesting loudly enough or where George Galloway stands on this.
 
EC1 said:
and they also want wiping out IceB..they alone though not babies...get in and take then out,,for the 10th time thats been answered but not acknowledged by you or Clive

you and Clive seem to think that people agree with murderers depending on which tribe are dying,,,when in fact most sane people just don't care who it is..if innocents die for no reason its wrong,,worrying about what galloway and a few others think seems to consume your arguments,,,stop worrying about it,,,they daft like those they support..from the comfort of their cozy existences

its simple really,,kill the killers...not people who live near em

would you like it jf you had a drug den on your street and other gang blew the whole street of houses up ...because its the same thing..dragging innocent people into sad macho actions that ought to have died out years ago.
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That is not what we are saying at all. It's the selective outrage which is the point.

Hamas use the civilians as a human shield . That is acknowledged by all sides. There is virtually no way to stop there attacks without some casualties. None at all. Hamas wants as many civilians killed as possible . It's an impossible situation granted
 
trackside528 said:
There are roughly 2.75 million Muslims in the UK (or so Wikipedia tells me) - would be interested in knowing how many have been radicalised. Expecting all Muslim Imams to come out and condemn or support any group is ludicrous (as it would be in any religion). I'm not denying by any means that some are preaching jihad etc - they clearly are.

The comparison between Hamas and ISIS is ludicrous, apart from one central fact - both of these are strategic and very rational organisations. As unpalatable as it may be to say, beheading a journalist does serve a strategic purpose for ISIS. These guys are the worst sort of thugs - but they aren't irrational lunatics.

The sooner we can get beyond the ideology and propaganda surrounding these groups, the sooner we can have a proper debate about what is driving these groups, rather than wasting time wondering why Muslims aren't protesting loudly enough or where George Galloway stands on this.
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Beheading children and sticking their heads in spikes ( as has been reported ) is rational?

What's driving them is simple. A total hatred and belief in the genocideof everyone who disagrees with them, most specially in the case of isis. What the fck is there to debate? They hardly deny it

Errr what exactly is it that drives you to crucify Christians who are doing absolutely no harm to you at all.. Fcking hell
 
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clivex said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...actitioners-of-disproportionate-violence.html

Ludicrous?

Unless this well respected journalist is lying (and I don't agree with every line) there is certainly a link between the two and contact
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Fair to say I don't agree with much, if any, of that.

All Communists are the same (just chuck Cold War China and Russia in the same basket - let's not over-complicate things). All Islamists are the same. Laziness at best, stupidity at worst.
 
clivex said:
Beheading children and sticking their heads in spikes ( as has been reported ) is rational?

What's driving them is simple. A total hatred and belief in the genocideof everyone who disagrees with them, most specially in the case of isis. What the fck is there to debate? They hardly deny it

Errr what exactly is it that drives you to crucify Christians who are doing absolutely no harm to you at all.. Fcking hell
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Yes, it is. It very much serves their sick purpose.

The more pertinent points in what is 'driving' them is who is funding them (I have absolutely no idea..) and who is supporting them. It may be too much for us to digest, but the people supporting (or tolerating) ISIS actually have legitimate grievances that moderate elements have failed to address.
 
No. He said that some will say there are significant differences between the two and he is saying that in their attitude to the west, there is little difference. He did not say they were the same.

And it's only one point of many
 
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i don't really care whats driving them Trackside..same as i didn't care what drove Brady Hindley Fred West..the ripper...they just need removing before they murder more innocent people..they are murderers pretending to have a cause..same as the ripper..voices told him to kill prossys..these have a fake belief their religion is better than other people's..when in fact all religion is a bag o boll*x

it really gets me how we have to try and analyse this ****...why?..they are just nut jobs out on the loose..its not complicated...in 1939 we didn't sit back and analyse Hitler...oh we'd better analyse what his problem is...i don't think so tbh

we need to stop discussing existences like these as if they actually have a cause or what their problem is..who cares?..just get rid of em. I don't care why the US are there either..as long as they get job done who cares what their motive is
 
trackside528 said:
Yes, it is. It very much serves their sick purpose.

The more pertinent points in what is 'driving' them is who is funding them (I have absolutely no idea..) and who is supporting them. It may be too much for us to digest, but the people supporting (or tolerating) ISIS actually have legitimate grievances that moderate elements have failed to address.
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Well the sick purpose is irrational to me.

But yes. I wish that could be nailed very quickly indeed. Qatar is mentioned frequently. Kuwait as a facilitator and Saudi probably through individuals rather than the government but no one seems sure.
 
icebreaker said:
Excellent article that is !
Should be read by all Hamas apologists -- might cure some people of their naivete regarding this jihadist organisation.
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could you list all these apologists for murderers please

i'll start you off

George Galloway

why do you care what a few divs think?

there are more important things to think about than what a few people with no influence whatsover think.

its like you have to be digging at some imaginary body of people that are actually just a few numpties...why?
 
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EC, the media has been full to overflowing with Hamas apologists for the past month, mate. In tandem, Israel has been portrayed as monsters -- vilified for standing up to jihadism.
 
clivex said:
Well the sick purpose is irrational to me.

But yes. I wish that could be nailed very quickly indeed. Qatar is mentioned frequently. Kuwait as a facilitator and Saudi probably through individuals rather than the government but no one seems sure.
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Why is it irrational to you? If you are in living in an area that ISIS is closing on, and you hear (or see) that in the last town they took they threw 200 non-believers in a mass grave and put another fella's head on a spike, do you not think that it would influence your decision about whether to stay and fight, acquiesce, or just get the hell out of town - it certainly would for me. These things have to be viewed in a local context.

These high-profile beheadings etc also offer them a chance to get the message out to their backers (particularly private individual or groups) that they are relevant and making progress.
 
There are ways of controlling a town with weapons without beheading kids FFs

Al queda overstepped the mark in the Arab world (Jordan bombings especially) and lost a lot of backing and support. Appeals to backers? The whole world wants to now see the backers heads on spikes . I do

The backers would be well advised to back off

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...inister-accuses-Qatar-of-financing-ISIS-.html

Time we had a b52 circling over Qatar
 
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clivex said:
There are ways of controlling a town with weapons without beheading kids FFs
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It's not a bad way to send a costless (to ISIS) signal to the surrounding population.

The morality of this is completely irrelevant. It should be obvious that morality or traditional rules of warfare are not something these guys concern themselves with.
 
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