Israel/Palestine

The joke that is western TV journalism has failed throughout this entire debacle to report that it was Israel, and not Hamas who broke the ceasefire.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

Therefore, and without needing recourse to historical rights of the Palestinians, it is Hamas who has had to defend itself if you want to turn the ridiculous rhetoric spouted by Israel on its head.

How they are allowed to treat the palestinians in Gaza like third class citizens is beyond me, it really is.

What happened to the UN building is a disgrace, and if that act was commited by any nation but this jewish one, I can't help but to think prominent western states would have retaliated.
 
This conflict has NO solution.

In Oslo it was proved palestinian want this situation to continue, with Ehud Barak (left wing), Arafat the terrorist (but more modarate than Hamas) and Clinton.

Nowdays Israel population are tired of being fired everyday and even more tired of the western attitude and Europe being so pusillanimous.


Now they have stopped, Sarkozy happy with his tvs shows, European Union will send more money to the palestinian for books for their kids and that money will be robbed and use to buy more guns and the conflict to continue in the same way, more meetings in the UN spending the money and wasting the time and no agreements.
 
Originally Posted by Sheikh
United Nations representatives on the ground have confirmed that no militants infiltrated the school. They have also confirmed that the Israelis are kept informed of the exact co-ordinates of UN buildings.




sunybay said:
Thats sounds very unlikely to be true
sounds like a Jimmy Carter or Koffi Annan special report
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Unfortunately Suny, the Israeli's have gone as close to admitting now (as they can do) that there were no Hamas in the school, but "identified some firing position in the vicinty of the school"
 
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This conflict has NO solution
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The only peaceful solution is a Palestinian homeland and that is something that the Israeli's are not willing to concede so you might be right.
 
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sunybay said:
Oslo?


What Hamas wants is Israel going to the sea.
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When the reasonable people aren't listened to (the majority) than the loonies take over (Hamas) You can substitute Hamas for any militant outfit in any conflict around the World. When reasonable people have been down trodden and bullied violent unreasonable people take over.

The Israelis make all the right noises and will talk around in circles till the cows come home but if there is anyone trying to push someone 'to the sea' or lets call it what it is, ethnically cleanse, than it's the Israelis. They're chipping away at it, year by year and mile by mile.
 
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'to the sea' or lets call it what it is, ethnically cleanse, than it's the Israelis. They're chipping away at it, year by year and mile by mile
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Israel has pulled out of Gaza and withdrawn the settlers. complete polar opposite of what you are claiming

I will refrain from commenting on your hopeless grasp of the situation any further
 
My understanding comes from Military people who have no axe to grind and who have been there.

My understanding is not garnered from Wikipedia or the Tabloids

The Israelis have made many agreements and concessions on paper and have not honoured any of them. This is why the Palestinians have had to 'walk away'. There was in fact nothing to walk away from, just more lies to keep the international community off their back until the next offensive and so the cycle continues, year by year mile by mile, 'to the Sea' as Suny would say.

You have the monopoly on embarrassing interpretations all to yourself.
 
My understanding comes from Military people who have no axe to grind and who have been there.

My understanding is not garnered from Wikipedia or the Tabloids
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So some UN serving private working in the camp canteen has a better grasp of the Oslo accord and who did what following that than the worlds media

What you have virtually admitted is that the basic facts surrounding that proposed agreement are of no interest to you at all. Lets just say it taht taht is somehwat suprising given that that was the most significant development in the relationship between the two parties over the past 50 years

But then again its all probably jewish lies isnt it?
 
Israel has pulled out of Gaza and withdrawn the settlers.
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I am happy to concede that. I suggest however that the massive subsequent obstacles they laid down in relation to infrastructure and institution building meant that the state would fail and that Hamas (created by Israel) would fill the vacuum. I think that their level of intent here would be an interesting discussion.

As an aside, clivex. This is a very well argued interesting thread. You reached for the 'jewish' card which is unworthy. This is about the political state of Israel and nothing to do with ant-semitism.
 
Hamas largely filled the gap created by Fatah's corruption and appalling leadership. I wouldnt doubt that Israel has not exactly been well disposed towards helping gaza prosper but on the other hand, there is absolutely no benefit to them in having a complete mess on their doorstep.
This is about the political state of Israel and nothing to do with ant-semitism.
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Ok. Thats another debate. Certainly there is a heavy strain of anti semitism within many of those (esp on the far left and undoubtably within the islamists) who continuously squeal about Israel. Barely concealed by some (livingstone etc) and i believe it is a worrying trend within europe at the present time
 
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I'm sure you'll find that Hamas's emergence has more do with a generational thing Clive, as a younger and more radical cohort turned their backs on the more traditional and established organs of Palestinian resistance and sought instead to allign elsewhere.

I'm not sure I recognise what you describe as a rise in anti-semitism either. Certainly the vibes I'm picking up would be much more consistant with a rise in anti-islamic sentiment which I'd regard as the mor epotent force at the present (at least on the ground if not necessarily in the media)
 
clivex said:
So some UN serving private working in the camp canteen has a better grasp of the Oslo accord and who did what following that than the worlds media

What you have virtually admitted is that the basic facts surrounding that proposed agreement are of no interest to you at all. Lets just say it taht taht is somehwat suprising given that that was the most significant development in the relationship between the two parties over the past 50 years

But then again its all probably jewish lies isnt it?
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I thought you where going to
refrain from commenting
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My information comes from high ranking UN Observers.

The simple fact regarding the Oslo accord and the agreed withdrawal of settlers is that it did not happen, a few where moved for the Israeli PR machine.The Israelis as with every agreement they make had no intention of honouring it.

Who mentioned Jews by the way or are you admitting to being anti-Semitic ?

As regards your post in general, the assumption that my information is from a private soldier is incorrect.However,I think some may find the tone insulting towards men who place there lives at risk every day.
You also jump to a large spurious conclusion regarding my interest in the Oslo accord but judging by the long string of spelling and punctuation mistakes I can see it's just another online rant.
 
...latest

The International Committee of the Red Cross accused Israel of failing in its international obligations after its staff were met with "shocking" scenes.
One medical team found 12 bodies in a shelled house, and alongside them four very young children, too weak to stand, waiting by their dead mothers, the ICRC said.
Aid workers had been denied access to the site for days, it added.
"This is a shocking incident," Pierre Wettach, ICRC head for Israel and the Palestinian territories said in a statement.
"The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded. Neither did they make it possible for us or the Palestinian Red Crescent to assist the wounded."
Correspondents say the criticism is unusually strong, coming from an agency considered to be neutral.
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My information comes from high ranking UN Observers
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Bullshit
The Israelis make all the right noises and will talk around in circles till the cows come home but if there is anyone trying to push someone 'to the sea' or lets call it what it is, ethnically cleanse, than it's the Israelis. They're chipping away at it, year by year and mile by mile.
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"UN observers" have observed this have they?

Get out of here...
 
Yes they have, but the politicians play politics with the reports.

Do your sources in wikipedia refute this ?
 
I'm not sure I recognise what you describe as a rise in anti-semitism either. Certainly the vibes I'm picking up would be much more consistant with a rise in anti-islamic sentiment which I'd regard as the mor epotent force at the present (at least on the ground if not necessarily in the media)
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As i say, its a tricky debate, but naturally enough..Ingrams, Fisk, Bowen and others in the media ...would not be welcome at a syngogue i would imagine

Anti islam is very strong "on the ground" as you say. Islam is of course a religion not a race issue and i find it hard to understand who puts a premium on liberal social values, democracy and respect for fellow human beings regardless of sex and sexuality, could be anything other than against this "religion". Same could be said of some strains of christianity too
 
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The United Nations Security Council approved a resolution today, calling for an immediate and durable ceasefire between Hamas militants and Israeli forces fighting in the Gaza Strip.

The vote was 14-0 with the (Pathetic) United States abstaining
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