Juddmonte International

LUKE said:
On the Sunday forum he gave the strong impression that he knew the inside story.Rumour has it that Mrs APOB has some very strong opinions which aren't appreciated by the big boss.
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David O'Meara the next main man.
 
TGG highest form was when Moore was aboard, without him it seldom works out, has run below par the last 2 races.
 
No criticism of Ryan Moore, but he got lucky when he defeated Australia. Prior to today, both TGG's latest runs were within 1lb of that rating (RPR).
 
LUKE said:
On the Sunday forum he gave the strong impression that he knew the inside story.Rumour has it that Mrs APOB has some very strong opinions which aren't appreciated by the big boss.
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Heard rumours he is high tailing it out of Ballydoyle to do his own thing. Fair play if so; I'm sure he'll be very successful in the next chapter of his career.
 
Agree with comments on Elsworth. In the Groove winning this very race under Cauthen one of my fondest racing memories.
 
Fair comment reet.
Aidan to be fair called it right not to run.
J gosden i imagine wished he did the same.
I was there in 1988 when the going went from firm to heavy overnight Wed to Thursday; the soil must be of a heavy nature to change that quickly .
Delighted for the winning connections; they were bridesmaids long enough at top level with Norse Dancer , Persian Punch etc.
 
RPR have the 2nd &3rd running a stone below their best, and Time Test 12lbs. That's questionable, but so were their previous ratings.
Hard to believe the winner found much more than the 3lb improvement she's been allocated, though?
 
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According to the RP it was the second slowest race of the day in relative terms, so that is a reason to mistrust the form. On the other hand every other horse bar the winner finished in the correct/expected/explainable order and the gap between GH and TGG was the same as in the Eclipse.

So I'd agree with you that Arabian Queen - and the rest of the field - deserve higher for yesterday and that the Eclipse and Prince Of Wales ratings should be pulled down a few lbs. As you say, the suggestion that Golden Horn ran 14lbs below his best is questionable.
 
Time Test's rating with Timeform was incredible.

TGG needs 12f or a very strongly run 10f now, he got neither.

Golden Horn just found getting up for the KG then being let down and having to peak again for this too much. But that in itself means he's no world beater = the likes of Sea the Stars and Frankel never needed excuses
 
Timeform have given Arabian Queen a provisional rating of 120 (up from previous high of 113 - Epsom). It's difficult to make sense of how she could win but I think Timeform were onto something when they rated her 34 after her first race at Ascot (9th May, 2014) saying "..weakened after 2f out; should do better in time." :)

 
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As I watched the race I was immediately a bit concerned....so much so I opened my Bot to check how much Golden Horn had drifted.

That was due to the way he was pulling early which is always a concern when it happens. So a legit excuse perhaps.


Golden Horn was beaten but he's still run up to form despite the ground was a bit shitty and he's pulled like a train.

I'd say he's still above average for a Derby winner and if given the chance will put the record straight later in the season.

Even Frankel had off days Reet,

You could hardly say his final run of his career he was at his best.

I know I expected sparks to fly that day but his win over Cirrus was far from spectacular for a horse rated the best of all time.

Golden Horn got beaten but despite that and some legit excuses he's ran a better race in the Judd than he did in the Eclipse on a line though TGG??????????????YES? NO?

Not saying he's a STS but he's a damn good horse in my book.
 
pdleech said:
Timeform have given Arabian Queen a provisional rating of 120 (up from previous high of 113 - Epsom). It's difficult to make sense of how she could win but I think Timeform were onto something when they rated her 34 after her first race at Ascot (9th May, 2014) saying "..weakened after 2f out; should do better in time." :)

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Love It :lol:
 
Tanlic said:
As I watched the race I was immediately a bit concerned....so much so I opened my Bot to check how much Golden Horn had drifted.

That was due to the way he was pulling early which is always a concern when it happens. So a legit excuse perhaps.


Golden Horn was beaten but he's still run up to form despite the ground was a bit shitty and he's pulled like a train.

I'd say he's still above average for a Derby winner and if given the chance will put the record straight later in the season.

Even Frankel had off days Reet,

You could hardly say his final run of his career he was at his best.

I know I expected sparks to fly that day but his win over Cirrus was far from spectacular for a horse rated the best of all time.

Golden Horn got beaten but despite that and some legit excuses he's ran a better race in the Judd than he did in the Eclipse on a line though TGG??????????????YES? NO?

Not saying he's a STS but he's a damn good horse in my book.
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You are kidding me surely about my last run. Cirrus had his optimum conditions and was no pushover. Frankel lost a few lengths at the start, hacked past and probably thought that's enough thanks when in front. Was a cracking performance which you could probably mark up. Also look who was back in 3rd.
 
Tanlic said:
Golden Horn got beaten but despite that and some legit excuses he's ran a better race in the Judd than he did in the Eclipse on a line though TGG??????????????YES? NO?
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Not for me no, I think TGG is a better animal on rattling fast ground
 
Golden Horn needs good to firm to show his best


Frnakel
in the Champion was amazing
Cirrus on that ground was a 135 horse
mighty nce
 
Yup, agree, Tanlic talking sh!te as usual :lol: Frankel even gave them a start in his last race... He almost looked bored of beating everything...

Personally i've never seen GH as a 130 horse. Very good horse but this is an average generation, as are the remaining older horses Treve excepted. We might just see our first ever triple Arc winner this year. Opposition is thin on the ground....
 
Cirrus is a gelding so won't be running in the Arc
Would be good to see him return for the Champion stakes though.

Edit, Sorry Aughex, I thought this was the Arc thread, apologies!
 
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They'll all gunning for Irish Champion. CDA is well above average from the old generation, was what I was hitting at, Treve wouldn't come close to him at his best.
 
True
That 2011 Champion Stakes defeat of So You Think who got a dream passage through the race was a cracking performance.
 
Their optimum are at different trips. She would have nailed him in an Arc (if he was allowed obviously).
 
I forgot about Cirrus! He is definitely not an average horse but surely too old now?! (How many times have i said that?!)
 
I still think GH on good ground over 10-12f is a very very good horse indeed and there are a number of reasons to suspect he's capable of far better than he showed in the Juddmonte and if he runs in the Arc and I see an over reaction to his defeat in the price I wouldn't hesitate to back him and if he's on his A-Game on the day he's got every chance of winning it, saying that I am very much in the Treve camp and will be willing her home all the way. I'll still be laying her though :)
 
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