July Cup

I cannot wait to watch this when i get home but Hughes always rides Paco just off the leaders - why was he held up ?
 
Gareth Flynn said:
I've got my doubts about whether Suroor will be able to produce Jealous Again at the same level as Ward would have been able to. It just strikes me as a very specific kind of training.
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She definitely with Godolphin?

Last I heard she'd been transfered to Tom A but was heading to Europe to an undecided trainer.
 
Gladiatorious went faster at Ascot.

I would seriously question that tbh Euronymous..seriously..they went hell for leather today

why would a jock hold a 7f/8f horse up in a 6f championship race?

if he did it was due to clueless instructions given him is all i can say

IF PB has the pace they reckon..he should have used it on the front end..you come from behind on a plodder..not a speed horse
 
Thanks Gareth - I guess it's the most likely destination, seems strange but probs for the best since Godolphin have yet to have a winner in the US this year despite the likes of Flashing, Music Note, Cocoa Beach, Regal Ransom, Two Step Salsa, Gayego, Desert Party, Vineyard Haven, Midshipman etc.
 
Just checked and Crisford yesterday said:

"The filly is not in our stable at the moment and we are not sure when she is likely to arrive. She will be really interesting but I can't tell you where you are likely to see her because I don't know," he said.

Helpful :) But by "our stable" I presume he means Godolphin at Newmarket?
 
Ardross said:
I cannot wait to watch this when i get home but Hughes always rides Paco just off the leaders - why was he held up ?
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He came through very easily toward the death. You would have to think that if he was anywhere near the pace, or indeed trying to stretch them, he would have been hard to stop.

I backed Paco Boy and Fleeting Spirit (who I also backed at Ascot) I was watching the former (who I fancied before the race - perplexed by the ride) and surprised the winner kept it.
 
The 'experts' on RUK had the theory that the plan for Paco Boy was to follow Scenic Blast and allow that horse to tow him into the race. When Scenic Blast made his move, I thought, Paco Boy looked a little outpaced. Scenic Blast's run didn't last very long and Paco Boy was left with too much to do. He did finish very strongly.
 
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Gareth Flynn said:
Just checked and Crisford yesterday said:

"The filly is not in our stable at the moment and we are not sure when she is likely to arrive. She will be really interesting but I can't tell you where you are likely to see her because I don't know," he said.

Helpful :) But by "our stable" I presume he means Godolphin at Newmarket?
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Thanks - sounds like they have her stable made up just no idea when she'll get there
 
EC1 said:
end of topic for me..and at no point have I..ever got personal here..unlike you and Gareth..on about it would be boring etc.
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I did not "get personal" with you. I clearly wrote that if the sport went down the route of conservative campaigning that you espouse, it would become boring. That is not a personal attack - it is simply a disagreement with one opinion you hold.

My points remain:

- The race was more interesting for the participation of Paco Boy.

- Group 1 winning milers can and have successfully dropped down to sprint distances to win Group 1s.

- Connections do not deserve criticism for running their horse rather than keeping him in his stable. At the very least, they have been rewarded with 4th place prize money (£20k?).

As it happens, I don't think Paco Boy had any trouble going the early pace, but clearly did get outpaced in the second half of the race before staying on and making up a great deal of ground, albeit in vain. In a parallel universe, we'd be talking about how well he ran against a pace bias. Either way the horse is clearly not as good over 6f as he is over 7f.
 
FS was a very smart looking winner but got the run of ther ace. I think it was last season (the season before?) she made a sparkling debut then did nowt. I backed her at Royal ascot I think that season. It's nice when they show their true form but the same can't really be said of the beaten horses.

Also, the rules regarding disquallification are dreadful in this country. She really should have been thrown out. It was accidental but that shouldn't matter.
 
My points remain:

- The race was more interesting for the participation of Paco Boy.

as he played little part I can't really see that..but interesting isn't exciting


- Group 1 winning milers can and have successfully dropped down to sprint distances to win Group 1s.

I never said they couldn't, I asked for any that had ..not doubting they hadn't because I know full well they have. I could have asked how many failed..a very big list

- Connections do not deserve criticism for running their horse rather than keeping him in his stable. At the very least, they have been rewarded with 4th place prize money (£20k?).

whereas aimed at a race he could win he would win significantly more money instead of having arsed thraped of him for 20k

I take your point about being too conservative..I am not one for sticking rigidly to trips..some horses that get messed around though just perplexes me..and accept that other avenues need to be pursued if a horse like this stays in training..but I also rail against people trying to get speed on the CV after they just trained a horse to get the mile.

My main argument was relative to this particular horse..if they wanted speed on the CV then why not train him for it early in the season..then stretch him out to the mile later. As it is they have probably blunted the horse's speed doing it tother way round.
 
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Dan Morton apparently will have a vet check Scenic Blast as well. I reckon that is it for Takeover Target. Hopefully he is retired now and goes to Living Legends.
 
They should have booked the F...in Orchestra for that stage show production. Sorry what a load of bollocks Queally knows how to steer and if he has no control to that extent his licence ability needs checking as well as who issued it. Oh yeah forgot the BHA connections to trainer etc, Please, more like stewards wanted to keep there position.
 
Do you not think it was a bit like Hamilton or Button doing a hand break turn in the pole position in the middle of a Grand Prix?
 
The thing that struck me was that Fortune allowed them all to get first run on him . He didn't ask PB a question until they had all quickened in front .

Shocking ride but hopefully he will go for the Sussex now and that will shake Ghanaati and RVW up .
 
I have to disagree with you there Toobe; Queally looked to have little say in the matter of where the filly went. She was on a powerful forward run and literally veered away from the whip each time he hit her, both ways. He couldn't have done a lot more to correct her the way she was running on so powerfully and it all happened so quickly anyway that any amount of steering would not have stopped the horse from doing it. If she had given him any warning she was going to do it he may have had a bit more of a chance but still, at that pace such violent swerves could not have been stopped by the rider on board.

I have seen and ridden many instances of racehorses swerving off violently, both with and without warning, and some that weren't even that violent. It is fairly easy to distinguish those that should not have happened and those that could not have been prevented, no matter who was on them. I've seen horses jump off gallops in the most ridiculous of circumstances; some where the rider makes no attempt to even steer, let alone use their stick to keep them straight. On one of those incidents I observed, both of us watching could tell a few strides out that the horse on the inside was going to swerve left as he had given the rider plenty or warning he was going to do so - she did nothing whatsoever to correct it and the result was that the horse to her left (a big solid mare of 17hh+) was literally taken off her feet and thrown sideways, decanting her rider into a ditch, by the impact when the small gelding did what we could see he was telling her he was going to do. That was entirely rider error. On another occasion I watched a horse on the gallops - an easy horse, a lovely ride - who with no warning whatsoever, whipped 180 degrees around to his right and in the same movement then jumped the ditch whilst cantering, again decanting his rider into the ditch; something that the rider could not control nor correct since it was so swift and no warning given.

They are just two examples - I've also seen a horse trying to jump off the gallops very dirtily and violently having badly cocked his jaw, yet since the move was anticipated (he had a history of doing so) the rider performed absolute miracles to keep him on the gallops (clouting them around the head has its advantages!) and stay on him in one of the best pieces of riding I've seen in a long time. Any other rider would have been toast, even taking the same measures he had. But again, although the horse did it suddenly, it was expected as he had been jumping off the gallops at the same place every time under another rider so he had a lot more warning of it than Queally did that the filly would react so violently to the stick.
 
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Shadow Leader said:
I have to disagree with you there Toobe; Queally looked to have little say in the matter of where the filly went. She was on a powerful forward run and literally veered away from the whip each time he hit her, both ways. He couldn't have done a lot more to correct her the way she was running on so powerfully and it all happened so quickly anyway that any amount of steering would not have stopped the horse from doing it.
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Agree 100%, and I know next to sod all about riding.
 
Has anyone have an idea why Fleeting Spirit ran about wildly like that?

I've had a look back through her form and except for when she hung left inside the final furlong on her debut the only other evidence of waywardness was leaving the stalls awkwardly.

There could easily have been someone, or horse, injured by her antics yesterday and if it happens again perhaps things won't work out as well.

What, if anything, can be done to prevent it happening again?
 
Not a lot, really. If she's not done it before there's every chance she won't do it again, or she might do it again once, twice, or even regularly. There won't be any way to tell until she runs again. She may have swerved around on hitting the front, or it may simply be that she's a filly and as such can be unpredictable. She might have been in season, leading to uncharacteristic behaviour.
 
Gamla Stan said:
That just sums this shite meeting up.
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This is my worst meeting fo the year, and although I promise myself every year to sit it out, I usually manage to squander a few pennies. This year I restricted myself to just two losing bets and the only other horse I seriously considered before applying the leave it alone you know you'll lose rule was Fleeting Spirit:lol:

Ascot I always seem to do well at, for whatever reason Newmarkets July, followed by Goodwood have been graveyards
 
paco boy was not outpaced he was simply ridden in the wrong way pehaps he was told to ride the horse that way, if he was mine he would have been much closer to the pace i would never have thought main aim was the fastest be he managed to stay there and i am sure paco boy is faster than main aim.
 
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