Juvenile Hurdlers 2021/22

Writing about it is probably an effective way of going about things but if it isn't, then it is no great loss since I have fun doing the previews and other pieces all the same.

This pretty much sums up my own thoughts.

I discovered years ago that tabulating my ratings and laying my thoughts out in writing helped me arrive at better punting decisions than previously. I suppose it effectively redressed the imbalance between subjectivity and objectivity.

Those ratings and thoughts were laid out in a Word document and I started emailing the document to my brothers and a couple of work colleagues who held a strong interest in racing.

I don't imagine they followed me in on anything because it wasn't my intention to 'tip' as such. Same goes here on the forum.
 
Tanlic - you really are a piece of work. Take it or leave it, but BH’s juvenile hurdle thread is a thing of beauty. Magnificently researched and laid out in fine detail for us all to read, and even a really useful summary at the end of each post. BH also adds a personal touch to most of his postings, and I, for one, am delighted that he is living under happier circumstances these days. BH is one of us, and we care for our own.

I have no idea why you would wish to ruin a thread by starting an argument with DO. You two have your own ongoing squabbles, but please keep it off this thread (DO is a sound bloke, btw). I’ve come across your type many times on the internet. Your ego is fragile, you don’t like to be challenged - you can turn nasty. You are temperamentally unsuited to social media and forums such as this. Luckily this forum is far bigger than you (I know, amazing, eh?), and we survive your weekly rattle-throwing; but the time may have arrived for you to consider if you should remain on this forum.
 
I am not seeing any constructive criticism, but I am seeing someone who - in the politest possible way - appears to be confused about what I am doing in this thread. Nevertheless, I do not expect everybody to have read enough posts to understand why I am not a tipster and there may be some newcomers or lurkers who have just caught this thread recently. So for that sake, I will attempt to elucidate things.

Essentially, I want to understand this niche area of the sport in its fullest capacity. Writing about it is probably an effective way of going about things but if it isn't, then it is no great loss since I have fun doing the previews and other pieces all the same.

Regarding the "prospects list" thing, I am just going to lift this from the preview I posted on the blog for the 7th of Janurary contest at Wetherby;-

"First and foremost, I must make it abundantly clear that I AM NOT A TIPSTER. Nothing I ever write is a tip. Ever. I very seldom bet myself thus I would be categorically averse to suggesting anybody risks their money on the basis of my content. I write only to inform, never to advise. The prospects thing you see at the bottom is nothing more than a device to see how my analysis matches up to reality thus ascertaining my knowledge and understanding of the sphere. Indeed, while it is nice to feel like a smarty pants, I often prefer there to be errors in the assessments as it means I have more to learn about the discipline. "

The closest comparison I can make to my structuring of the list is someone creating a tissue from scratch. Indeed, this is done without my looking at any bookies' prices or the tissue of others since I do not want my judgement to be influenced by their thoughts - consciously or otherwise. So if those on the top of the "prospects list" match the bookies' favourite then we probably used the same processes to reach the same conclusions.

That I do not look at the prices beforehand ties in precisely with what I wrote on post #134 in this thread (where there is also a P/L table in case you are interested). Due to this process, I have absolutely no means of playing against the market and ascertaining value. My top prospects are who I would hypothetically have as favourite in each juvenile hurdle I preview. Nothing more. If they were tips then I would be much more selective in the races I choose, and much more conscious of whether they represent value. If I had any pretentions of being a tipster, I would like to imagine that profit would be at the forefront of my processes. Since it is essentially impossible to make a profit without being aware of the market, it would be equally impossible for me to be a tipster.

Insofar as the tone you have used is concerned, I can assure you that I am personally ambivalent. My esteem is my own responsibility. If I gave it much thought, I would guess that you are harbouring some unhappiness and this outburst is a symptom. Should this be the case then I wish you nothing but good and hope that you feel better before long. If I am wrong then this wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last! Either way, I'd suggest that you just be nicer to yourself and to others because there is nothing to be gained from being pointlessly antagonistic and considerably less from being erroneously antagonistic (apart from providing others with an accurate depiction of the idiom "tilting at windmills"). Although as with anything, this is entirely up to you. Have a nice day :)

So what you're saying is have the lot on Gaelic Warrior in the Boodles. Thanks.
 
This pretty much sums up my own thoughts.

I discovered years ago that tabulating my ratings and laying my thoughts out in writing helped me arrive at better punting decisions than previously. I suppose it effectively redressed the imbalance between subjectivity and objectivity.

Those ratings and thoughts were laid out in a Word document and I started emailing the document to my brothers and a couple of work colleagues who held a strong interest in racing.

I don't imagine they followed me in on anything because it wasn't my intention to 'tip' as such. Same goes here on the forum.

I'm definitely in profit selectively following you in.

For my money this was your best ever shout:

https://www.racingpost.com/results/2/ascot/2015-06-19/622975
 
So what you're saying is have the lot on Gaelic Warrior in the Boodles. Thanks.

This a genuine shot? Another fella on Twitter reckons this is essentially a good thing and goes off a fairly short price. Doesn’t strike me as a bullshitter either.
 
This a genuine shot? Another fella on Twitter reckons this is essentially a good thing and goes off a fairly short price. Doesn’t strike me as a bullshitter either.

BH has already given his analysis but I think there are elements to this horse we can't see. I've other judges telling me 129 is a minimum of a stone wrong.
 
:( had just posted this on the ante post thread but admit Gaelic Warrior could be anything.

The Tide Turns in the Boodles at 9/1 NRNB

Elliott was quoted in the RP Cheltenham stable preview earlier in the week as saying how he wanted to run him in the Boodles but he needed to get a 3rd run into him for him to qualify.

He’s just been declared to run in the Red Mills on Saturday in a race he wouldn’t be expected to win against the likes of Saldier, Quilixios, Darasso and Teahupoo, in spite of the weight allowance.

The last time Elliott entered a juvenile in this race was in 2019 with Couer Sublime. He finished down the field at Gowran before running 2nd to Pentland Hills in the Triumph when he had a rating of 138. That mark would have been lenient enough to run in the Boodles (then Fred Winter of course) but he was Elliott’s only realistic Triumph entry whereas this year he has at least two with very strong chances in that race.

The Tide Turns currently has an HRI rating of 135 and in the likelihood that a similar performance to Couer Sublime’s awaits him on Saturday that mark isn’t likely to change too much for the Boodles, even allowing for an Elliott BHA tax.

Having looked good on his debut in a 20 runner Punchestown maiden he performed more than creditably at the DRF behind Vauban and Fil Dor when he wasn’t given an overly hard time in the latter stages.

A mark of between 135 and c. 138 in the Boodles would (history suggests) see him carry something like 11st 5lb - 11st 8lb, which on his past performances wouldn’t be insurmountable

Were he to win on Saturday then he more than likely rules himself out of handicaps anyway so the Cheltenham NRNB kicks in. Similarly, were he to run deplorably then they may elect to skip Cheltenham altogether.
 
You two have your own ongoing squabbles, but please keep it off this thread (DO is a sound bloke, btw).

Actually we don't. It takes two to squabble. I have him on ignore so only see his pearls of wisdom when others quote him and they don't bother me.

For someone who hasn't met me, you're a sound judge of character :)
 
Actually we don't. It takes two to squabble. I have him on ignore so only see his pearls of wisdom when others quote him and they don't bother me.

For someone who hasn't met me, you're a sound judge of character :)

I’d forgotten that, DO, apologies! Ok, Tanlic takes potshots at you, and you ignore him.

You’re in that 98% cohort of decent people on this forum. And you offer up sound, reasoned study of your selections.
 
BH has already given his analysis but I think there are elements to this horse we can't see. I've other judges telling me 129 is a minimum of a stone wrong.

Is this mark official either in the UK or in Ireland?

It certainly isn't listed in the Irish ratings. I presume it won't get a UK rating until it's actually entered in a handicap but I won't be surprised if it gets something around 138/139 as that's how its French mark translates and the UK handicapper seldom goes lower.
 
Is this mark official either in the UK or in Ireland?

It certainly isn't listed in the Irish ratings. I presume it won't get a UK rating until it's actually entered in a handicap but I won't be surprised if it gets something around 138/139 as that's how its French mark translates and the UK handicapper seldom goes lower.

UK handicapper has really fucked up. They didn't factor in that Willie would go straight to the festival.
 
In the belief that Tanlic does'nt have the self discipline not to 'unfluounce' soon enough, I have a question.

Why disrespect (the very wonderful) Bachelors Hall for guiding short priced winners and advertise your bone fides to do so by reminding us you tip Shishkin repeatedly?

Asking for a friend.

(PS - I've met DO on many occasions and he is a total phucking nightmare.)
 
Thx, cl, can’t understand why not in the BHA database then. Will they be duty bound to honour the entry mark you mention?
 
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The BHA database doesn't include Irish ratings as far as I know, Barjon.

I too was wondering if maybe the handicapper would revisit the mark.
 
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No, but if they gave him a mark for a UK race then surely he’d have an official UK rating. Maybe there were special conditions for the race, or something. Doesn’t seem to make sense.
 
No, but if they gave him a mark for a UK race then surely he’d have an official UK rating. Maybe there were special conditions for the race, or something. Doesn’t seem to make sense.

He was entered for a handicap at Cheltenham a few weeks ago and was allocated a mark of 129. I've asked someone as close to the horse as anyone will get and he confirmed the 129 is not for changing unless there is collotoral form. He won't run before the festival.
 
Thx, slim. That’s pretty much out of the horses mouth :) and that’ll do for me. Still doesn’t make a lot of sense that the BHA have him without a mark.
 
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