King George VI And QE Stakes

I am a little bit surprised that PB was seen as such a "shock" challenger by the commentator...clearly had the figures to be in the frame here under those conditions.
 
Galileo said:
Phoenix Tower, Youmzain and now Papal Bull (with blinkers)...Chris keep finding horses to oppose Duke Of Marmalade with and you'll be in the poor house soon.

Take a look at the race again, DOM goes a couple clear without Murtagh going for the whip. Murtagh only went for the whip after Papal Bull went past. I would have him to beat Papal Bull and the rest every day of the week. This is an exceptional racehorse who actually looked to be carrying a bit of condition in the parade ring.
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Excuse me Gal, but where did I say Papal Bull would ever beat the winner and to be honest, I said Youmzain had the best form pre race, which I still believe. He was beaten by a better horse and so was Papal Bull, I said I would like to see Papal Bull in blinkers, but where did I ever say that I thought Papal Bull would beat him in blinkers.

Also when I bigged up Phoenix Tower he was only a conditions race winner, who has now been placed in 3 group ones and is a group 3 winner. The horses improvement was commendable. PS, I never said he would beat DOM at Ascot either, if you care to read what I put, I said he offered each way value against him, fwit I backed Duke Of Marmalade at Ascot. I said I thought Phoenix Tower would win at Sandown not at Ascot, so perhaps getting your facts in line before making attacks would be a bit better in future. Or perhaps if you actually read the following

"The winner pulled it out the bag when he looked beat, the sign of a champion and a Champion he is. I was firmly wrong as I underated the winner, however I got a nice payday in 2nd and 3rd, but never in a million years if you ran this race ten times over, would you get a different outcome, different distances maybe but the best horse won, the 2nd best horse was 2nd and the 3rd best horse was 3rd".

You can see I say DOM is the best horse.

Try reading what people say instead of what you think they say in future.
 
Chris...I had not read your last post as I was writing my last one....hence the follow post.. "Fair enough Chris".

As for Phoenix Tower...there are quotes from you a week before the Prince Of Wales saying something along the lines "they may as well give him the race now" etc but fair enough if you backed DOM on the day.
 
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Galileo said:
Like I said, Murtagh had not gone for Duke Of Marmalade when PB came to him.
If he had of waited longer people would have been moaning about him not testing Duke Of Marmalade's stamina etc.
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I'm not moaning at all Gal, I think DOM ran a fantastic race and is fully deserving of a Champion's title - as I said before the race, if he stayed he would win, and now we all know he did :)

But I think Peslier's remark was worth reporting. Btw way I think he leaned over into DOM so far due to Peslier's use of the whip - as you can see in the head on, Peslier was cracking down from well over his head

Btw just watching him being passed again by Pesleir, he got his knitting in a bit of a twist again as he seems to do in these G1s LOL - it didn't matter though. Dom seems a straightforward horse

The point we are all making is that Papal Bull is not at all straightforward, so it was interesting watching him being ridden by a stranger and a Frenchman - he needs some riding, as does Youmzain in another way
 
Surely PB pulled himself up a bit when he hit the front? Bags of talent but wouldnt be first time he hasnt gone through with it

I wouldnt rule him out when they reoppose.
 
Galileo said:
Chris...I had not read your last post as I was writing my last one....hence the follow post.. "Fair enough Chris".

As for Phoenix Tower...there are quotes from you a week before the Prince Of Wales saying something along the lines "they may as well give him the race now" etc but fair enough if you backed DOM on the day.
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I didn't acknowledge DOM's form in France prior to Ascot, plus I actually think I said if they ran PT in the Queen Anne, I was all for him going for the mile race, which I still think he would have won. I do believe PT would be the 3rd best miler in the country and if you could keep away from HTN I think he'll grab his group one.
 
Wonderfull run by DOM, posting 131 in my fig, I dont think he was coming back to the other horse, Papal Bull was doing a " Geordiland", Peslier lost the race coming too soon.


About the race thinking for the Arc, nothing to fear for the grey here at ascot today.
 
Euronymous said:
The form is well below normal KG standards and I see the winner at 8.2 for the Arc. Should be a 1 before the 8. He stays 12f but is patently not quite as good over that trip.
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Above average G1 performance Euro, but not a DT one
 
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Here's my twopenceworth:

Duke Of Marmalade won a bad race with plenty to spare. As soon as PB went past him he changed his legs and shrugged the challenge aside in a manner that only a really high class horse can do. Given that AOB said later he'd let DOM down after the royal meetng, there has to be the chance he'll improve for the run. Stamina for this trip is no longer an issue and he is looking a truly high class and versatile middle-distance horse.

Papal Bull got a wonderful ride from Peslier. He was being scrubbed along at the back of the field at halfway and his momentum got him to the front impressively. Had Peslier checked him before that, he might well have struggled to raise his game again. I think Peslier is being hard on himself, after all, the horse has improved a fair bit for him. I was thinking of PB's supporters as he hit the front so hard lines to those of you who didn't collect but you got a terrific run for your money, reminding me of the time I was heavily into Cacoethes to beat Nashwan.

Youmzain. How on earth did Hughes manage to get from pinning Murtagh against the rail to being hemmed in himself by the favourite within the space of a couple of furlongs? Credit to Murtagh, discredit to Hughes.

Red Rock Canyon - couldn't have set too fast a pace up front as he ran on better than a few more fancied runners. Probably just a sensible, even pace, enabling him to run to his best on the day.

I don't think any of the other main fancies ran their race. Quite a few looked a wee bit sweaty beforehand.
 
I thought the most interesting thing that AOB said was that if they dropped him back to 10f then they could train him positively.
 
betsmate said:
I thought the most interesting thing that AOB said was that if they dropped him back to 10f then they could train him positively.
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Yes. He usually says something of real significance in the aftermath ofa big win. It sounds as though they reckon there's plenty to come.
 
clivex said:
Surely PB pulled himself up a bit when he hit the front? Bags of talent but wouldnt be first time he hasnt gone through with it

I wouldnt rule him out when they reoppose.
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At the very least it was partly PB stopping and DoM finding a bit more. PB went past him quickly enough and close enough to the finish that had he kept going at that pace there simply was not enough time for DoM to get there, and with a bit in hand.

BTW, I backed DoM as a cover to a small profit and would have taken a fair hit if PB had stayed in front, so there is no sense of pocket-talking but I really can't see that this was anything other than a straightforward case of a horse stopping in front, as I said earlier, seemingly coinciding with Peslier straightning him out, that at least aided DoMs victory.
 
On the contrary RRC set a good pace, as AOB confirmed - they wanted to find out if DOM could do it fair and square, not just win the race, no doubt with future plans in mind

Betsmate, don't you agree that the French have a different riding style, and that a totally new jockey can give a tricky horse something to think about?

Imo it was a stroke of genius for Sir MS to pick Peslier for the ride
 
DO

tend to disagree completely with you on this


DOM fully fit for his target of the season today, and the interview of Obrien showing they will try the easier options in 10f once the ground is firm and will leave Frozen Fire and Soldier Of Fortune for the assault of the french race.


About the stamina
I think DOM put an equal nce today and in the POW and the key is the firm ground, but not scope for me, he is as good as this, what is very good but is not a 135 horse.
 
About the rider of Papal Bull, Ryan Moore lost the last race with him but he rode him very well last year and is a bonus with this horse to know he idles in form and you have to time it better to win this race.
 
EC1 said:

Quite a few looked a wee bit sweaty beforehand.
including Papal Bull
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Who was playing up considerably in the Parade ring, whilst DOM who looked to quite a belly on him was strolling around half asleep, saving his energy for the race as champs usually do
 
Certainly a change of jockey seems to have done the trick and if we were to get into generalisations, then perhaps the French do have a particular style. I just thought it was an interesting turn of phrase, as though Papal Bull was running faster trying to get the garlic smell off his back or the onions from his neck! :D
 
Papal Bull has improved massively on his Coronation Cup run.

I don't think he has tbh.

Any 12f race on fast ground gives the horse every chance of placing imo..how to make the place a win is the hard bit
 
sunybay said:
DO

tend to disagree completely with you on this


DOM fully fit for his target of the season today, and the interview of Obrien showing they will try the easier options in 10f once the ground is firm and will leave Frozen Fire and Soldier Of Fortune for the assault of the french race.


About the stamina
I think DOM put an equal nce today and in the POW and the key is the firm ground, but not scope for me, he is as good as this, what is very good but is not a 135 horse.
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While he is the type to always carry a bit of condition, he did not look fully peaked for this as he did at Royal Ascot last time...but obviously ready for this.

As for 10 furlongs being the easier targets...he is likely to run in the strongest 10 furlongs race of the season (The Irish Champion) and the Breeders Cup Classic against the likes Curlin etc...hardly an easy assigement.

As for being rated 131 or 135...I do not know. But I stick by what I said, DOM will prove to be the best horse O'Brien has trained in his career. A track like York could see him through in a huge performance.
 
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