One thing it does prove is the King George does not need three year olds to make it a cracking race. Of course in an ideal world you'd like to see them run, but seeing the older horses clash in mid summer sets up the prospect nicely of taking on the three year olds in the Autumn.
King George VI And QE Stakes
- Thread starter Euronymous
- Start date
EC1
On a break
But I stick by what I said, DOM will prove to be the best horse O'Brien has trained in his career.
thats a big statement Gal
I can't really question your judgement though after your faith in DT in the arc last year
...when I did my best to talk you out of it
thats a big statement Gal
I can't really question your judgement though after your faith in DT in the arc last year
...when I did my best to talk you out of itCertainly a change of jockey seems to have done the trick and if we were to get into generalisations, then perhaps the French do have a particular style. I just thought it was an interesting turn of phrase, as though Papal Bull was running faster trying to get the garlic smell off his back or the onions from his neck!
LOL! But I don't think we should beat up on Papal Bull nor on Peslier because firstly, it's very rare in a true run Group 1 for a horse to get back up when headed, and secondly I'm certain that whenever PB had come to him DOM would have pulled out a bit more to beat him.
There is no visual evidence of PB faltering - quite the contrary... the only way PB might have beaten PB as someone else mentioned, is to have kept well clear of him - but Peslier was obviously told PB needs something to race with. He's a very tricky horse to win with!
EC1
On a break
I'll get panned for this
but when you are unsure which horses have run to which marks...the clock can be an invaluable guide
the only problem with this race is that with it being on the round course..the times cannot be compared to the straight
the ground was really kicking the top off when they raced farside compared with the straight...add in the round course/straight course oddities that this course now has..quite a difficult task
but when you are unsure which horses have run to which marks...the clock can be an invaluable guide
the only problem with this race is that with it being on the round course..the times cannot be compared to the straight
the ground was really kicking the top off when they raced farside compared with the straight...add in the round course/straight course oddities that this course now has..quite a difficult task
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Macurthur was sacrificed for pace making today. At Epsom he was further behind the pace setters.
EC1
On a break
if you wanted to "rate off" one horse..RRC must be the one I would have thought
EC1
On a break
this is one of those races that is very very hard to put a mark on
timewise it will be a nightmare...and as you say..rating off one isn't ideal.
very hard
most of these have run below par imo
timewise it will be a nightmare...and as you say..rating off one isn't ideal.
very hard
most of these have run below par imo
EC1
On a break
the winner wasn't sweating up...but most of them were...maybe that is why we are struggling to put a mark on the race.
I have only seen the race once but didnt recall Macarthur being a pacemaker. But it is dangerous to rate off one horse of course. Perhaps we can bring Youmzain in too???
But if PB hasnt improved since Epsom, then surely you are not rating DOM particularly highly?
Ran similar to his PoW and Tattersal imo
EC1
On a break
PB has run 17 times, I doubt very much if he has improved much really..if you rate the race off him then you have conflict with using RRC
my instinct would go with rating the race off PB...because as was said before the race...it was hardly a vintage renewal
on paper that looks poor...but visually you would still be impressed by the winner
my instinct would go with rating the race off PB...because as was said before the race...it was hardly a vintage renewal
on paper that looks poor...but visually you would still be impressed by the winner
Last edited:
imagine
At the Start
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 685
I thought the first two both ran very well. Since it was Peslier's first ride on PB I think he did a pretty good job although I think he probably headed DOM because JM wasn't initially aware that there was another horse so close to him. Winner did it nicely in the end, although I think you have to feel a little sorry for connections of PB, they must have thought they had it in the bag near the end. Chris, what are your thought that the syndicate that own him might keep him in training for another season? Hughes gave Youmzain a poor ride imo but don't think he would have beaten the first two anyway. I was surprised to see RRC finish where he did - I thought he might be found out for stamina over the distance, especially after doing pacemaking duties. Wonder if he might be sent to the sales at the end of the year?
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Absolutely. But he`s probably three or four pounds better over 10f. That`s why Juddmonte - Irish Champion - BC is the route they`ll go according to Gal.
EC1
On a break
loving your work 
EC1
On a break
you'll get folk talking about us
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,014
Going into the race, Petara Bay's OR was 105. Like the first three, he was held up but couldn't live with them in he second half of the race. He's probably a fair guide to the level of the form, which puts the winner on 128 (at 1½lbs per length). This would also put RRC on a similar mark to Charlie's figure.
EC1
On a break
not so hard after all to put a mark on it then
I'm not much into figures, as I think there are too many unquantifiable variables to make them reliable in any definitive sense.
Eg, with relevance to this race: it would not be sensible imo to rate it using PB, as he is a horse who will run very differently according to how he is ridden, his mood on the day etc. It's not possible to say he can't have improved after 17 runs, as Peslier got a different tune out of him - and for this reason he may well have run up to or even well beyond his previous best
Similarly Youmzain got into all sorts of trouble and the run should imo be written off for rating purposes. I'm just playing devil's advocate here of course!
Btw the commentators were saying it was a fast time and AOB seemed to agree, saying that's what they'd set out to achieve. How does it compare to the records?
Eg, with relevance to this race: it would not be sensible imo to rate it using PB, as he is a horse who will run very differently according to how he is ridden, his mood on the day etc. It's not possible to say he can't have improved after 17 runs, as Peslier got a different tune out of him - and for this reason he may well have run up to or even well beyond his previous best
Similarly Youmzain got into all sorts of trouble and the run should imo be written off for rating purposes. I'm just playing devil's advocate here of course!
Btw the commentators were saying it was a fast time and AOB seemed to agree, saying that's what they'd set out to achieve. How does it compare to the records?
EC1
On a break
not sure the bare time will tell you much Headstrong
the course alterations may have changed things + bare times won't really reveal anything without other races being run on the round course
I'll have a little bet that Topspeed uses the same going allowance for straight and round..which will mean a low speed figure for the race..he would be far better off not putting a speed figure to the race if he does use the same one.
the course alterations may have changed things + bare times won't really reveal anything without other races being run on the round course
I'll have a little bet that Topspeed uses the same going allowance for straight and round..which will mean a low speed figure for the race..he would be far better off not putting a speed figure to the race if he does use the same one.