King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2022

Results in..hold all tickets:lol:

Westover 31%
Mishriff 25%
Emily Upjohn 23%
Torquator Tasso 15%
Broome 4%
Pyledriver 1%

1. Westover 11/8 fav
2. Mishriff 4/1
3. Emely Upjohn 0/30

Distance 4L lengths 3/4L
 
Euronymous said:
1 - She's much better than that bare form. She lost 2/3 lengths at the start of the race and had to use energy better spent at the end of it just to get in contention.

2 - The Irish Oaks was the target because her trainer didn't fancy tangling with Desert Crown and crucially it made more sense to go for a winnable Group 1 given that she'd not scored in that company yet. The fact that this is plan B then is not a reflection on her merit - imo.
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I agree.

I also agree that the wee pull Frankie took when he realised he was getting there early cost her momentum.

To counter that, Moore said Tuesday had plenty left at the end.

The overall time for the Oaks was no better than fair [for a G1] but when you add on WFA and the sectional mark-ups it becomes very impressive and definitely in Taghrooda territory and not that far off Enable (as a 3yo).

I said after the Derby that Westover lost a lot more ground than was generally appreciated. I think his Irish win proved as much and he has a serious shout here but I've never bought into the idea of the WFA allowance as significant. It's there to help younger horses compete because they are physically immature. Same with the gender allowance.

But on my own raw figures, Westover is only 1lb better than Emily Upjohn but he has to give her 3lbs.

It might boil down to which has improved the most since their last race or which runs its race or indeed simply to luck in running here.

Five of the six are potential winners so the favourite is a bit skinny for me.
 
Desert Orchid said:
……….I've never bought into the idea of the WFA allowance as significant. It's there to help younger horses compete because they are physically immature. Same with the gender allowance………
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Agree, can never understand how even some trainers talk of it otherwise. That said, I do think wfa for 3yo is a tad generous at this time of the year.
 
barjon said:
Agree, can never understand how even some trainers talk of it otherwise. That said, I do think wfa for 3yo is a tad generous at this time of the year.
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It has been tweaked a bit down the 50-odd years I've been studying form. In the last 20 or so years a lot of computer-generated data have 'informed' the decision-makers but those data will only ever be averages across a very large sample. There's bound to be some three year olds who are more mature than average and will therefore arguably be advantaged by the allowance. To counter that, though, if they are more mature they will probably have already performed to a higher level so their rating will be higher to begin with and they'll probably end up top-rated and a short-priced favourite.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Pyledriver will be chasing place money...
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Nice chasing...

Well done anyone who backed him but talk about a race falling completely apart...

I reckon that might be the nail in the coffin for Dettori and Gosden, unless he was riding to orders, which is hard to imagine. Never ever asked the filly a question.
 
Well done Pyledriver and connections.

Clearly the trainer is still getting more improvement out of him even as a five year old.
 
Bad race. I think the 12f division is rapidly declining. When you think of Baaeed and how good the Eclipse was - that was just a boat race.
 
I honestly thought Pyledriver was going to win......................about 50yds from the winning post.

Thought I'd seen it all .........gotta be the worst crop of horses we've had for a long time when you get results like that
 
Desert Orchid said:
Nice chasing...

Well done anyone who backed him but talk about a race falling completely apart...

I reckon that might be the nail in the coffin for Dettori and Gosden, unless he was riding to orders, which is hard to imagine. Never ever asked the filly a question.
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DO she was beat fair and square she pulled far too hard.

You can't blame Frankie if the horse wasn't good enough.

The only thing Frankie will be kicking himself about is not being able to ride Pyledriver!
 
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I've backed 9 horses today and apart from Lessoo and catch the Paddy they've all got stuffed.

Westover put the shovel in the sh*t for me....On aline through Broome the winner put up a better performance than last years winner
and he did have the Arc winner in second who seemed fine on the ground
 
Marb said:
DO she was beat fair and square she pulled far too hard.

You can't blame Frankie if the horse wasn't good enough.
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That wasn't my impression watching the race. I didn't think she pulled hard at all and Frankie appeared happy to track TT, hadn't asked for any effort by the half-mile pole and just as I anticipated a sweeping run up the inside he simply kept a hold of her head and let the others go.

Maybe he felt she wasn't travelling and looked after her but I'd love to know what'd going on in Gosden's mind after that race, with Mishriff also blowing it at the start.
 
Desert Orchid said:
That wasn't my impression watching the race. I didn't think she pulled hard at all and Frankie appeared happy to track TT, hadn't asked for any effort by the half-mile pole and just as I anticipated a sweeping run up the inside he simply kept a hold of her head and let the others go.

Maybe he felt she wasn't travelling and looked after her but I'd love to know what'd going on in Gosden's mind after that race, with Mishriff also blowing it at the start.
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I thought she pulled very hard.indeed over first few furlongs, was the first horse beaten. Frankie tried to shake her up on the bend and she went backwards
 
Desert Orchid said:
That wasn't my impression watching the race. I didn't think she pulled hard at all and Frankie appeared happy to track TT, hadn't asked for any effort by the half-mile pole and just as I anticipated a sweeping run up the inside he simply kept a hold of her head and let the others go.

Maybe he felt she wasn't travelling and looked after her but I'd love to know what'd going on in Gosden's mind after that race, with Mishriff also blowing it at the start.
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This is why I have a go at DO sometimes......It's like he's on planet Zod or in the twighlight zone....He's more on less saying Frankie stopped the filly.......fooking crazy
 
After that result today..What a pleasure it is to watch William Buick ride..guy reminds me so much of Bill Shoemaker.

You can bet he'd be thinking he'd like the leg up on Highbank for the 2000 Guineas who looked very special today until Naval Power put up an even better performnce
 
Quite an ask for Benoit De La Sayette to take over from Frankie for the Queen on Saga...I wonder if she's sharpeneing the axe incase he does something stupid:lol:

You can bet Frankie is glad he never rode that today
 
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Flagship uberalles said:
I thought she pulled very hard.indeed over first few furlongs, was the first horse beaten. Frankie tried to shake her up on the bend and she went backwards
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I've watched the race again. I'm really not seeing that she pulled any harder than anything else in the early stages and no more than you'd expect for one tucked in on the rails with horses all around.

There's a moment about 5f/6f out when Dettori moves his hands on her neck as if to ask her to move forward and nothing happens. After that he loses about three lengths relative to the leaders and after that he's just going through the motions. As I say, maybe he just felt the filly was off her game today and he made sure she didn't have a hard race.

Or maybe the ground was too firm for her.
 
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Outsider said:
Maybe it's because the classic form is crap.
Desert crown looked good but the rest not so.
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I take the view it was good form for what it was on the day mate.

However, you only need look at recent derby winners the past ten to fifteen years or so to see that many underperformed after the Derby.

I know Desert Crown looks a very good horse but after this injury business I wouldn't be in a rush to back him next time out.

More power to him if he could roll up in an Arc as a three year old and run well but he's definately odds against to win it.

Westover has just boiled over and not run his best race today. A bit like me as a hormonial teenager doing GSCE's he's not made best use of his effort today. He could be better with time maybe stepped up in trip (St Leger?).

The same could probably be said of Emily although she is obviously a filly and she might need dropping down in trip according to Frankie.

I didn't like her pulling early as that is usually a sign they think or want to go faster than they actually are able to so maybe her temperament needs watching in future races.

There'll probably be other days for these two if the trainers can get them right. Westover I would be more keen on for the end of this season in a St Leger whereas Emily could be one who needs another season in training to be seen at her best.

She is very talented but might just be a bit quirky.
 
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