King George VI Chase 2014

EC1 said:
bloody hell Clive..i get people asking me are my speed figures to nearest 100th..coz if they not they sh1te...and yet we got championship races run 2f shorter than they should be..and virtually no one gives a toss..wtf?????????????????????

i'm staggered tbh...punters deserve what they get imo after seeing this..you being shafted good style and don't mind it seems

in future ..don't ever talk to me about accuracy..ever....laughable in the extreme

we have threads on here planning for races..the people don't even know what trip its over..but talk for months about races over unknown distances

and apart from a couple of people here..people who are supposed to be at expert end of race analysis..don't mind what ground or trip races are run over..it really is an eyeopener to me this

don't any of you bother what trips these horses are actually running over?..really?????????
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You are not getting it are you? And if think 2f short is overfoing it a bit?


A error can be made with no real effect cant it? I find it very unlikely that sc would have been more compeitive over slightly further on that day. Its simply thr way he ran . Not only that I think there is far to much weight being put on variationd of distance at these distances. We dont look at 3m 5f winners and rule them out at 3 4 do we?
 
clivex said:
You are not getting it are you? And if think 2f short is overfoing it a bit?


A error can be made with no real effect cant it? I find it very unlikely that sc would have been more compeitive over slightly further on that day. Its simply thr way he ran . Not only that I think there is far to much weight being put on variationd of distance at these distances. We dont look at 3m 5f winners and rule them out at 3 4 do we?
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its you that doesn't get it...i'd read up on the subject if i were you

the fact you accept one of the biggest races of the season being run over 2f shorter than advertised worries me

the games a bag of boll1x whilst amateurs like those at Wetherby and Haydock are in charge..can't you see that?

it defies belief imo..people knock the AW..a veritable gold mine...then put up with this silliness..unreal..i must live in another dimension

to be fair..if you and others don't care what ground or distance races are run over then there's little to be said tbh...i'd better never hear about accuracy from anyone in future that's all about my views whilst folk accept this complete misinformation as fact.
 
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So what do you do though, EC? Stop betting altogether?

I am 100% behind you on this matter, and if the clock does have any merit in the Jumps game, then exposing these apparent distance inaccuracies is perhaps its most useful application yet. I remember the likes of yourself, reet and several others getting in about the Betfair Chase last season (a very good discussion it was to observe too), and maybe if we'd had some further corroboration, people would have exercised a degree more caution insofar as Cue Card's King George chances were concerned.

As it happens, I think the events at Kempton got as close to "full vindication" of your querying of the Haydock trip as it's possible to get, given CC patently failed to get home in the King George - a fact which also blows clive's "2f don't matter" theory out the water (imho). The latest apparent abberation perhaps validates your concerns further, and at the very least, you'd think it would command some serious attention from the trade-paper - if only it wasn't the intellectual equivalent of the Beano.
 
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Gras. Since when was it 2f? Don't you think connections would have had something to say? And last year the betfair is officialliy 3m 1f is isn't it? So if a furlong shorter then it's the KGv distance. Isn't it????????

and isn't Kempton supposed to be the one 3m course that quicker horses get? Eddredon bleu etc? (Although I believe the KGv is more punishing than many suppose)


The idea that a horse who galloped away over a supposed (very supposed) 2 m 7f completely fails to stay 3m is frankly not for me.


Eu. You are totally missing it. Like the bad accountant who goes on about the £15k difference in the books but ignores the £200k trading loss. I never said its acceptable but I do nit believe for one minute that it affected the performance of sc in any material way. If punters want to hang their hat on that being the reason, then that's up to them but big mistake in my book.
 
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EC1 said:
its you that doesn't get it...i'd read up on the subject if i were you

the fact you accept one of the biggest races of the season being run over 2f shorter than advertised worries me

the games a bag of boll1x whilst amateurs like those at Wetherby and Haydock are in charge..can't you see that?

it defies belief imo..people knock the AW..a veritable gold mine...then put up with this silliness..unreal..i must live in another dimension

to be fair..if you and others don't care what ground or distance races are run over then there's little to be said tbh...i'd better never hear about accuracy from anyone in future that's all about my views whilst folk accept this complete misinformation as fact.
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This is a bit boring ec. You haven't read my previous posts. I said absolutely it should be accurate
 
clivex said:
Gras. Since when was it 2f? Don't you think connections would have had something to say? And last year the betfair is officialliy 3m 1f is isn't it? So if a furlong shorter then it's the KGv distance. Isn't it????????

and isn't Kempton supposed to be the one 3m course that quicker horses get? Eddredon bleu etc? (Although I believe the KGv is more punishing than many suppose)


The idea that a horse who galloped away over a supposed (very supposed) 2 m 7f completely fails to stay 3m is frankly not for me.


Eu. You are totally missing it. Like the bad accountant who goes on about the £15k difference in the books but ignores the £200k trading loss. I never said its acceptable but I do nit believe for one minute that it affected the performance of sc in any material way. If punters want to hang their hat on that being the reason, then that's up to them but big mistake in my book.
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Of course it materially affected SC's performance, else why not stick to 2m with the horse to begin with?
Wouldn't have won over the correct distance either, but you're being deliberately obtuse in accepting there were other factors at play on the day, but conveniently ignoring them in the 2 runs by Cue Card.
 
What a strange post. Whats 2m got to do with it? ever heard of kauto ? desert orchid?Doesn't get the point at all.

Perhaps someone could explain why a horse that was galloping away at the very minimum of 2m 7f (probably more given the obsession and exaggeration here) won't stay 3m?

i won't hold my breath..
 
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Clive, perhaps you could explain why Cue Card went from hard on the steel jumping three-out, to stopping like he'd been shot between the last two?

If you think all horses stay all trips, then you would be as well packing the game up.
 
Why dont you put words in my mouth then eh? Because you are struggling??? Thats what pisses me off about certain posters here. Troll with a comment i did not make and certainly do not believe. Timewaster frankly

How do i know? Apart from te fact that a few of his were apparently blowing up at the time

I given that he has stayed 2m7f (very minimum) running away the onus is on you to explain how that "proves" he cant stay 3m? Given the difficulty with quantifying numbers here and knowing what to leave in and leave out lets put it this way....slowly

3m as opposed to 2m7f is the same as 6f 55 yards as opposed to 6f. In fact i would say less so because staying jumpers frequently show far more adaptability to distances than flat horses, the national being a clear point. does it really need stating that course, going and simply the way the race is run is significant.

Now how many sprinters have we heard of that stayed 6f but couldnt get 6f 55 yards?
 
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I fail to see how my post could be considered trolling.

Your position appears to be that CC gets 3m perfectly well (based, presumably, on his Betfair) run, and that there must be some other explanation (again, presumably, that the yard were out of sorts at the time) for the Kempton run.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.......but there's no need to ladder your tights, just because someone challenges or disagrees with it.
 
No. What pisses me off is the stupid general comment that you made. Boring frankly

I think he just about gets 3m but being a more mature horse this year (always believe they get more as they age) and being kempton then i think it would be a helluva a call to claim he has no chance of running well this year. In fact the trainer has stated that he is looking like he needs further hasnt he?
 
clivex said:
What a strange post. Whats 2m got to do with it? ever heard of kauto ? desert orchid?Doesn't get the point at all.

Perhaps someone could explain why a horse that was galloping away at the very minimum of 2m 7f (probably more given the obsession and exaggeration here) won't stay 3m?

i won't hold my breath..
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It's been explained a dozen times, but while ever you continue to ignore the effect fundamental factors such as pace. distance, and ground have on a race, you'll always be stuck on judging form purely on aesthetics.
I wish you luck.
 
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