Was it offered to Ryan Moore a couple of years ago for him to turn it down? Murtagh seemed the obvious choice for them to go after. Prior to that they had Spencer and Kinane. Having the best is surely not the be all - for instance if Fallon came back riding as good as ever I am not sure they would take him back if he wanted to. Far too simple to say it is not the best because the best riders have not taken it.
Murtagh at Ballydoyle
- Thread starter Cantoris
- Start date
Was it offered to Ryan Moore a couple of years ago for him to turn it down? Murtagh seemed the obvious choice for them to go after. Prior to that they had Spencer and Kinane. Having the best is surely not the be all - for instance if Fallon came back riding as good as ever I am not sure they would take him back if he wanted to. Far too simple to say it is not the best because the best riders have not taken it.
Sheikh
At the Start
Who said he would leave ?
Can you name the top jocks who where offered and turned it down seeing as you reckon the best available have not taken it ?
davidjohnson
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It's a grey area as for a start there are differing opinions as to who is the best available. It's got to be the best job in racing though, a cushy number racing half as many times a week as in the UK, rides at all the big meetings and guaranteeing yourself at least one handful of Group One wins a season.
Equally, if I had the Stoute job or the Gosden job, I wouldn't necessarily see it as furthering my career to go there.
Equally, if I had the Stoute job or the Gosden job, I wouldn't necessarily see it as furthering my career to go there.
Bar the Bull
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How cushy is it in the mornings?
G
Gearoid
Guest
Very. Sit in the jeep with Aiden while Seamie,Colm and co frezze there nuts off.
betsmate
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Best jockey. Best job.
What's the best horse Lemaire has been on? This is considered a bad year for Coolmore yet Murtagh has still been on the likes of Starspanglesbanner, Cape Blanco etc. I don't see how it cannot be the best stable for any jockey with Group 1 winning ambitions year in year out. It's sheer numbers as well - most stables will have one star but Ballydoyle will regularly have multiple Group 1 winning horses in one season.
Gamla Stan
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To be fair, Lemaire hasn't even been in the job a year yet.
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Irish Stamp
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Depends what you consider as "best" though.
Lemaire gets to sit on top class fillies/colts - Behkabad, Sarafina, Shalanaya, Daryakana for example, gets the wedgy retainer from the Aga Khan and is taking his share of the prize money.
For the record Lemaire sits sixth in the French jockeys title race (behind Ioritz Mendizabal, Maxime Guyon, Franck Blondel, Christophe Soumillon and Olivier Peslier) in terms of winners ridden with 74 (Mendizabal has 134) and has amassed 3.5m Euros worth of prize money for owners.
Without seeing the terms of the retainer regarding how much each jockey is paid every year it's hard to tell which is the best but i'd be pretty sure that a top jockey lik Murtagh wouldn't mind just getting on them for the big day with someone like Heffernan or O'Donoghue ride around the smaller tracks and in the maidens and handicaps.
Lemaire gets to sit on top class fillies/colts - Behkabad, Sarafina, Shalanaya, Daryakana for example, gets the wedgy retainer from the Aga Khan and is taking his share of the prize money.
For the record Lemaire sits sixth in the French jockeys title race (behind Ioritz Mendizabal, Maxime Guyon, Franck Blondel, Christophe Soumillon and Olivier Peslier) in terms of winners ridden with 74 (Mendizabal has 134) and has amassed 3.5m Euros worth of prize money for owners.
Without seeing the terms of the retainer regarding how much each jockey is paid every year it's hard to tell which is the best but i'd be pretty sure that a top jockey lik Murtagh wouldn't mind just getting on them for the big day with someone like Heffernan or O'Donoghue ride around the smaller tracks and in the maidens and handicaps.
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
I wouldn't argue about Lemaire being the best jockey, but there is no way that it is the better job in terms of Group 1 opportunities. In the past three seasons the Aga Khan's French trained horses have had a total of 15 Group 1 wins compared to 45, (37 ridden by the stable jockey) for Ballydoyle, and 4 Group 1 wins for Wachman ( 3 ridden by Murtagh ) in that time. The Coolmore job has to be the biggest in European racing.
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Figures like that do not lie.
Gamla Stan
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Well, if I'm going to be pedantic, they do! How many horses did the Aga Khan have in training over those three seasons compared to Coolmore? I suspect there isn't a huge difference but pedantic I am....
Also, how many of those Group Ones were proper Group Ones?
Also, how many of those Group Ones were proper Group Ones?
betsmate
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Subtle difference there though.
Don't forget Lemaire has had a couple of bad injuries too, which accounts for his French ranking.
Irish Stamp
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True Betsmate and he's also taking home 10% of the prize money he earns which day to day will be significantly more than Murtagh is getting, in terms of handicaps and maiden races.
Thats the point though - Coolmore year in and year old will have a huge number of top class horses in training competing at the very top level in Ireland, UK, France and America. The Aga Khan might have one, possibly two top class horses racing in one season. Coolmore will invariably have a handful.
Irish Stamp
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3.3m Euro's Gal and that's with missing around a month of the season mid-summer with a broken leg.
Yeah I put them up just before you there - still below Murtagh's total between UK and Ireland. Over the last 5 seasons Murtagh has had over £20 million sterling between Ireland and UK in total prizemoney according to the RP.
This is a bit like ping pong.
Irish Stamp
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I make Lemaire's around the 20m mark in Euro's (since the 2006 season).
Gamla Stan
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It is a bit, I can see both sides.
The Ballydoyle job will supply you with more Group Ones and more horses but I'd say the Aga Khan job has less politics and has much more prestige attached to it. Really depends on the individual when it comes to deciding which job is the "better".
If Khalidh Abdullah had a retainer however...
The Ballydoyle job will supply you with more Group Ones and more horses but I'd say the Aga Khan job has less politics and has much more prestige attached to it. Really depends on the individual when it comes to deciding which job is the "better".
If Khalidh Abdullah had a retainer however...
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
He's been in the main job with the Aga Khan for less than a year and IMO this hasn't been a vintage year for the Aga, unlike last season when he seemed to win everything under the sun on Arc weekend.
He's doing far less travelling, riding a similar quality of horse and in terms of prize money they'll be earning around the same and Lemaire is probably under less pressure to get the results, we only have to look at the papers and this thread to see what happens if Murtagh is on the supposed first string and is beaten by a supposed lesser fancied stablemate or the yard are perceived to be having a poor year.
He's doing far less travelling, riding a similar quality of horse and in terms of prize money they'll be earning around the same and Lemaire is probably under less pressure to get the results, we only have to look at the papers and this thread to see what happens if Murtagh is on the supposed first string and is beaten by a supposed lesser fancied stablemate or the yard are perceived to be having a poor year.