New initiatives

Couple of responses on the RP website this morning:

Champion jumps trainer Paul Nicholls is not convinced that another proposal, that of qualifying races for the Cheltenham Festival, is a good idea.

He said: "My immediate thought is that as jumps racing is so good and healthy, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

and surprise, surprise:

"The betting industry has given a cautious welcome to the Racing For Change strategy of developing a pro-active relationship with bookmakers.

William Hill director of racing David Hood said: "What racing has to do is to recognise that it is first and foremost a betting product. That is why we welcome the commitment in the report to maximise the appeal of racing to the betting public.

"But - and it is a big ‘but' - we question why there has not been much more involvement of the bookmaking industry in this process at a senior level.""
 
davidjohnson said:
And they can all be found at Cheltenham's November meeting in their 4x4's with pro hunting stickers eating champagne pic nics in the car park dressed in tweed and red cord trousers. The shamefull side of our sport imo.
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What's wrong with red cord trousers? :D
 
Colin Phillips said:
William Hill director of racing David Hood said: "What racing has to do is to recognise that it is first and foremost a betting product. That is why we welcome the commitment in the report to maximise the appeal of racing to the betting public.

"But - and it is a big ‘but' - we question why there has not been much more involvement of the bookmaking industry in this process at a senior level."
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And that, in a nutcase - sorry, nutshell - is the problem with racing in the UK.
 
Lets face it, Racing will never attract the fan base of other sports because any regular fan simply can not get involved apart from Betting and its not asif you can pop down to JJB and buy acceseries or clothing in your favourite owners colours, take a look around the internet and this is the only good racing community around, there are hardly any trainer or jockey websites so how are people to learn.

Racing has been tarnished for a long time now as the upper classes sport thats riddled with criminal activities hardly marketable huh? and how do we go about proving this is not the case - £15+ entry fees for 6 races of class 6-4 action and splashing drug scandals all over the front page of the newspaper and highlighting market "NEGATIVES".

Now I am a fanatic like everyone on this forum but racing is what it is, you either love it or hate it but personally I don't think it will ever see any major changes whether you are chucking millions in re-branding or not, we've lived with the same principles for years and years yet we always savour the great horses, trainers and jockeys that come by ever so often and why are we still here talking, watching, rating, investigating horses on our own accord if we was so angry and disgusted at the way the industry was run? yes a few minor changes are needed but we do have a bloody great sport"
 
Sorry DJ, that sailed right over my head then. Actually thinking on it, you're a PTP supporter aren't you?

Anyway, it's raspberry cord trousers - they're not simply red!! And I'm still waiting to be bought my long tweed trainer's wife coat....
 
To be quite honest, I've no bloody idea - never seen them sold anywhere, but they're often on parade at Cheltenham! Some of them like to wear as outlandish trousers as they can find - Colin Brown is a nightmare for it and I always seem to be asking him if he's colour blind. Mind you Charlie Mann takes it to new levels altogether - he was at Doncaster sales wearing orange jeans last week. Has anyone seen orange jeans for sale anywhere within the last ten years?!?
 
I'm pretty sure they sell them at PTP meetings in the stalls. They normally sell hats with small furry animals stuck on top so red cords must be in their stock!!!
 
Shadow Leader said:
To be quite honest, I've no bloody idea - never seen them sold anywhere, but they're often on parade at Cheltenham! Some of them like to wear as outlandish trousers as they can find - Colin Brown is a nightmare for it and I always seem to be asking him if he's colour blind. Mind you Charlie Mann takes it to new levels altogether - he was at Doncaster sales wearing orange jeans last week. Has anyone seen orange jeans for sale anywhere within the last ten years?!?
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I've never seen orange jeans, but was assailed by the sight of a pair of canary yellow ones teamed with a wine red T-shirt the other day. Horrible!
 
I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to innovation but this is all bollocks isn't it? It strikes me as having been produced solely because Racing For Change needs to justify its existence rather than it actually having any good ideas.

Almost all Group 1s are already on Saturdays anyway. The ones that aren't are part of major festivals. What would happen to Royal Ascot? Would all the Group 1s be crammed into the Saturday? The same at York? Why is that a good idea?

Premier Flat meetings are already readily identifiable. That bit is just guff.

I quite enjoy The Shergar Cup as a once-a-year novelty but that's all it is. Racing simply isn't a team sport so contrived team events are not the way forward.

The idea of an end-of-season Flat Championship is admirable but simply won't work. If it's too early in the season, the object will be defeated. If it's too late, the ground will be sh*t and it will be ignored in favour of Longchamp, The Breeders' Cup and The Far East.

I share Paul Murphy's concerns about the need for horses to "qualify" for Cheltenham. What if a horse has been lame in the early season? Does a trainer have to cram an unwanted race in to qualify a horse? What if a horse is brought-down by a 100/1 rag in a qualifying heat? Does that mean it can't run at Cheltenham? Could stars like Kauto Star and Denman ended up missing the festival on a technicality?

Apart from anything else, every NH race is an unofficial Cheltenham trail anyway, so what difference will it make? The jumps season is fine as it is. We already have qualifiers for The Pertemps Final but nobody really regards them as proper Cheltenham trials do they? The Pertemps series doesn't have any great narative that punters follow through the season, does it?

Noboby gives a toss about the BHA Order of Merit (apart from me, when I've had a bet on it). It could be improved but anything similar simply isn't going to get the juices flowing.

That's all.
 
So Charlie has ditched the pink for orange now has he?

Can't wait to see them during the winter months.

Was at Beverley today for their Ladies Day,a thoroughly depressing event for anyone who is even remotely interested in racing.

Overcrowded,full of piss heads and just not very comfortable,especially if you wanted to watch any racing.

Still as they count their takings I don't think they'll be bothered about the needs of the genuine racegoer whom as a group are getting fewer and fewer.
 
I feel that the authorities feel that they have to be seen to be "doing something" or marketing idiots (overpaid with nothing to do all day) are pumping this stuff to justify their Ivy lunches

When the counter suggestion is made that its best to "leave well alone" then theres the accusations of "stick in mud" etc...damned to silence the doubters

They meddled around dimsally with the cricket season year after year, which the resultant effect that no one knows whther they are coming or going (the 50 over competition being best example). Then we have the horrible 39th game propsal by the odious Richard scudamore in football, which has thankfully seemingly been knocked back

Continuity is often a huge factor in appreciation of sport. Not to be underestimated
 
Relkeel said:
Almost all Group 1s are already on Saturdays anyway. The ones that aren't are part of major festivals. What would happen to Royal Ascot? Would all the Group 1s be crammed into the Saturday? The same at York? Why is that a good idea?
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Half of Group 1s are run on weekdays.

Why are there three Group 1s on the Tuesday of Royal Ascot, and only one on the Saturday? At least one of the Queen Anne and St James's Palace should be moved to the Saturday.

Why don't they swap the Sussex and Nassau in the program at Goodwood, so that the the best of their races gets a bigger showcase? (Ouija vs Alexander Goldrun notwithstanding)

Why don't York move their meeting back one day, and move the International to the Saturday? Similarly Newmarket with the July Cup (which has been mooted)?

How about Epsom moving their Oaks day on the Friday to the Sunday?
 
I like the fact that some of the best days racing are during the week. The thought of Juddmonte International day turning in to days like John Smith's Cup day would be enough to put me off going.
 
My reading/ understanding of the seasons structure or premier flat meetings is one of hierarchy and hence an exercise in presentation. To no small extent the season lacks a focus and one Group 1 can appear as little different to another and so doesn't really capture the causal sportsfans interest, as one seemingly blends into another. In essence it's probably not dissimilar to a grand prix structure but without the accumulation of points leading to the crowning of a champion. Why for instances might someone regard a certain grand prix as being better than another?

It's possibly one area where jumps racing does have an advantage in that its season tends to build to more of a climax due to its structure and most sportsfans probably know that Cheltenham is the pinnacle. The flat season can give the impression of being little more than a change of venue but essentially featuring the same horses (or group of) swapping victories around to no obvious definitive end result.

Sports fans are conditioned to separating men from women, or engine CC's in motorsport, or the number of people in a rowing crew as the difference between them is quite easy to spot. However, to most people's eyes, a horse is a horse, and so separating out age groups and sex and trying to explain that they all have their own mini championships isn't necessarily as easy to present (clearly you can't dress fillies in skirts, nor can you easily fit a juvenile offenders tag to a 2yo). Alright I'm being flippant, but people quickly overload and without a natural structure leading to a final result, or a way of separating out the different racing categories, people struggle to follow it.

I've wondered before if there might not be a case for introducing a new group category of group 1 star (alright you'd probably call it something more sexy) but you know what I mean. essentially introduce a band that covers no more 12 races in a season and redesignate these as the creme de la creme. It would of course be a nightmare to implement, and ideally you'd probably want to embrace Ireland and France to give it true credibility as being apex races, but I wonder if something truly elite and exclusive that operated at a level above group 1 might not help?
 
davidjohnson said:
I like the fact that some of the best days racing are during the week. The thought of Juddmonte International day turning in to days like John Smith's Cup day would be enough to put me off going.
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Would you feel the same if work commitments left you unable to see any of the weekday Group 1s at all?
 
I'm with David. Why does the entire racing calendar have to be turned upside down to get everything run on a Saturday?

Midweek festivals work, and they work primarily because you get a lot of people there for the racing, not on a jolly up to get as pissed up as they can (viz-a-viz the Saturdays at Royal Ascot, Glorious Goodwood etc). Of course you still get plenty out on a jolly for the likes of Royal Ascot and the rest but the Saturdays are far, far worse in terms of unedifying spectacles and spot-the-sober-man. In fact I'm in the camp that would quite like to see The Derby returned to a Wednesday, not that it's going to happen.
 
Point of order, Ms. Leader.

"spot-the-sober-man" - I appreciate that "man" in this case is probably an all-encompassing generalisation but I have to point out that it is often just as difficult to find a sober "woman" at a racecourse.;)
 
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