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- Thread starter Colin Phillips
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Football? Saturday?
imagine
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But would there not be a possibility that some of them might be riding at an evening meeting elsewhere anyway? I'm not sure if there are any evening meetings on Oaks day, not familiar enough with the fixture list, just a thought
Colin Phillips
At the Start
From the sound of things on Racing UK the "crowd" at Sandown yesterday had consumed a few.
It will be interesting to see what programme they come up with. The Irish Champion Stakes is certain to take the Coolmore horses and then the Arc is just around the corner. Does Britain need to have an end of season Championship to rival (or at least try to) the Arc and Breeders Cup meeting?
From The Guardian -
From The Guardian -
Gamla Stan
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The calendar just will not make it work, they're better to take on the Irish Champion than the Arc or Breeders Cup though.
They would be better joining forces with the French and offering the QE2 and other races to have a weekend at Newmarket (Saturday - Cambridgeshire, QE2, Dewhurst) and Longchamp (Arc, Abbaye, Opera, Marcel Boussac, Cadran, Foret). As I've said previously though, absolutely no chance, the French already hold the upper hand.
They would be better joining forces with the French and offering the QE2 and other races to have a weekend at Newmarket (Saturday - Cambridgeshire, QE2, Dewhurst) and Longchamp (Arc, Abbaye, Opera, Marcel Boussac, Cadran, Foret). As I've said previously though, absolutely no chance, the French already hold the upper hand.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I don't see the problem really. Champions Day, Arc weekend and Breeders Cup Day are all fabulous events I look forward to every year. I suppose the Festival of Racing has suffered since the big day at headquarters was added but that's a small price to pay.
The problem the flat has is too many crappy saturday's in high summer.
The problem the flat has is too many crappy saturday's in high summer.
montyracing2
At the Start
I've been thinking about the issue of racing's future for a while and I still can't get a handle on what is meant by 'success'.
And if 'success' was achieved would it mean racing had a glorious future?
Racing' s image seems to have become a lumbering dinosaur, too big to change whilst food is running out.
Yet, most race meetings I've been to at established courses putting on established metes seem to be trundling along quite happily.
Big issues just seem to get in the way and are as much of a distraction as generating meaningful debate.
MR2
And if 'success' was achieved would it mean racing had a glorious future?
Racing' s image seems to have become a lumbering dinosaur, too big to change whilst food is running out.
Yet, most race meetings I've been to at established courses putting on established metes seem to be trundling along quite happily.
Big issues just seem to get in the way and are as much of a distraction as generating meaningful debate.
MR2
Harbinger
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I don't think they'd be allowed take on the Irish Champion; I can't see why the European Pattern Committee would allow it.
I love Champions Day at Newmarket - it's one of the highlights of the year for me; but I do think it's very close to the Cambridgeshire meeting. I don't see what can be done about it being so close to the Arc meeting; and it can't be brought forward due to the Cambridgeshire w/e, and also the big Ascot meeting this weekend. Trying to create some other 'big day'would only run into the same problem/s
One big problem with the meeting last year was that it was almost dark when the last two races were run. Almost no-one stayed for the Jockey Club Cup which had been put last - certainly not for the presentations, and the WE was deserted inc by the press! Shocking and depressing even if it wasn't a vintage running.
The main problem with the whole shebang, as I never tire of saying, is the way that sponsors' needs have undermined the racing narrative by constantly downgrading and changing the names of even the most important races - even where the 'proper' name remains it's often grossly subordinated to some bookies' promo.
It's impossible to keep people's long-term interest if they have no idea of the relative significance of what they are watching from one race or one season to another. If even someone with my long history or race watching, and utter committment over the last 10 years, finds it hard to follow what's going on, what chance for newcomers or those with only a casual interest?
One big problem with the meeting last year was that it was almost dark when the last two races were run. Almost no-one stayed for the Jockey Club Cup which had been put last - certainly not for the presentations, and the WE was deserted inc by the press! Shocking and depressing even if it wasn't a vintage running.
The main problem with the whole shebang, as I never tire of saying, is the way that sponsors' needs have undermined the racing narrative by constantly downgrading and changing the names of even the most important races - even where the 'proper' name remains it's often grossly subordinated to some bookies' promo.
It's impossible to keep people's long-term interest if they have no idea of the relative significance of what they are watching from one race or one season to another. If even someone with my long history or race watching, and utter committment over the last 10 years, finds it hard to follow what's going on, what chance for newcomers or those with only a casual interest?
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Going back to Gal's quote above: "The question is major media events which register with the public." WTF does the man mean? There are already major racing events which have registered with the general public for decades. Not everyone might be able to tell you the exact dates, but they know The Oaks, the 1000 and 2000 Guineas, the Derby, the St. Leger, the Grand Nasty and the Cheltenham Gold Cup. There are a fair few who can chuck in the Sandown Gold Cup, too. So there are seven major races, or media events, which register heartily with the public every year.
What were once gloriously-attended one-day beanos have been extended to two and three day events, and one might say distended to the point of flatulence beyond that to four days. Is there room for yet another expanded 'festival'?
I have no idea what a major media event is, unless Smith means it's to be a fanfare of even more advertising for the sponsors than the public already registers, and that its picture rights are flogged off globally. But to be of interest globally, it would have to bring in phenomenal amounts of racegoers in order to showcase effectively, and to look like a "major" media event - and I don't know of any Flat racecourse which could sustain the numbers he seems to have in mind, given their current problems with even providing sufficient lavatories, seating, ease of movement, etc. If 20,000 people onsite aren't enough at Newmarket, where does he imagine the additional 20-30,000 or even more that he wants are going to park, eat, drink, and go for a widdle afterwards? A new major event of the imagined size he seems to crave is going to need an expansion of physical facilities before it gets beyond Wish List status. And as for the Levy Board coughing up sizeable funding for prize money - apart from living in hope, living in reality has to kick in first: the Levy doesn't fund property expansionism, and before you decide to let the extra thousands of people through your gates, you'd better have your expanded racecourse ready, let alone your expanded event.
What were once gloriously-attended one-day beanos have been extended to two and three day events, and one might say distended to the point of flatulence beyond that to four days. Is there room for yet another expanded 'festival'?
I have no idea what a major media event is, unless Smith means it's to be a fanfare of even more advertising for the sponsors than the public already registers, and that its picture rights are flogged off globally. But to be of interest globally, it would have to bring in phenomenal amounts of racegoers in order to showcase effectively, and to look like a "major" media event - and I don't know of any Flat racecourse which could sustain the numbers he seems to have in mind, given their current problems with even providing sufficient lavatories, seating, ease of movement, etc. If 20,000 people onsite aren't enough at Newmarket, where does he imagine the additional 20-30,000 or even more that he wants are going to park, eat, drink, and go for a widdle afterwards? A new major event of the imagined size he seems to crave is going to need an expansion of physical facilities before it gets beyond Wish List status. And as for the Levy Board coughing up sizeable funding for prize money - apart from living in hope, living in reality has to kick in first: the Levy doesn't fund property expansionism, and before you decide to let the extra thousands of people through your gates, you'd better have your expanded racecourse ready, let alone your expanded event.
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On the matter of big G1 Saturday meetings - and I go to a lot as I'm sure many on here do - there's no denying they provide a great buzz. But! - the crowds providing the buzz often make it uncomfortable for proper racing fans like ourselves - they get pissed, they get in the way, they block the view and form long queues at the Totes and the bars etc etc. they can be very antisocial, eg standing up in their seats when the winner passes the line, or getting very drunk and agressive. It's a circle which can't be squared!
Top action at evening meetings is an odd one - I was at the Briadier Gerard night in 2007, and it was as devoid of atmosphere as in 2009 (acc to the above poster). And Sandown is just about my favourite course. Windsor is almost always atmospheric however, even with standard racing.
Big courses need big crowds - Newmarket (Rowley) only works on very big days like the Guineas or Champions. I'm totally against 4-day 'Festivals' anywhere - all such are 'packed' with too much moderate racing. Two day-ers like the Guineas meeting are far better imo. Racing is pretty tiring if you work and play hard on track - two days is enough for most people
Top action at evening meetings is an odd one - I was at the Briadier Gerard night in 2007, and it was as devoid of atmosphere as in 2009 (acc to the above poster). And Sandown is just about my favourite course. Windsor is almost always atmospheric however, even with standard racing.
Big courses need big crowds - Newmarket (Rowley) only works on very big days like the Guineas or Champions. I'm totally against 4-day 'Festivals' anywhere - all such are 'packed' with too much moderate racing. Two day-ers like the Guineas meeting are far better imo. Racing is pretty tiring if you work and play hard on track - two days is enough for most people
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Thought i'd re-kindle this after watching the sea the stars video on RPTV. They have someone from racing for change on there and the implication of much of what he is saying is that we need to learn from Sea the stars and work out how to promote future champions better... I'm sorry, but now is the time, send out the fireworks, tell the world, make him famous for gods sake.. Funnily, they then talk about promoting him etc etc and that the RP is on board with this, yet when I clicked on the story about sea the stars facebook page it has been listed under racing business and therefore not available to a non-subscriber like myself!!! The powers that be need to get a grip and tell john/bobby/colin, or whatever they called joe public. Really is farcical..
I was glad to see that some of the big national's realised the achievement of this horse and put him on the front or back pages..
I was glad to see that some of the big national's realised the achievement of this horse and put him on the front or back pages..
Absolutely and I see no reason why we need to muck up the good parts of the Flat season for the delectation of fictional racegoers who won't be attracted any more by razzmatazz endings .
It is an utter fallacy to try and suggest we can replicate Cheltenham on the Flat . What we should do is end the season with a bang - but a new bang - not spoiling what we have already .
The Breeders Cup is really overegged - I mean only a handful of horses go there every year , it is a serious exertion for those horses to travel long disatnces to very different weather conditions every season . The Racing for Change crap about limiting our " premier " ( the very word makes me shudder - premier inn , usually premier seems to be a word used to try and make something sound better than it was ) season to the end of September would be madness - with an October full of crap racing except for G1 2 yo races .
I would suggest that we could do this by bringing the end of the season forward a week - giving Donny the week before so that the Racing Post Trophy and the October Hcap as it would be known could be run then
Then upgrade Champions Day and start the racing a bit earlier in the day - the 3 weeks would allow horses from the Arc meeting more time to recover
and do the following as well as the Champion and Dewhurst
Upgrade the Challenge , Jockey Club Cup and Rockfel to Group 1 races
Add a Group 1 sprint - why should we have two months of the season without one and very few sprinters want to go to the US and run on dirt ?
So we would end with a meeting of six Group One races and the G2 Pride stakes !
It is an utter fallacy to try and suggest we can replicate Cheltenham on the Flat . What we should do is end the season with a bang - but a new bang - not spoiling what we have already .
The Breeders Cup is really overegged - I mean only a handful of horses go there every year , it is a serious exertion for those horses to travel long disatnces to very different weather conditions every season . The Racing for Change crap about limiting our " premier " ( the very word makes me shudder - premier inn , usually premier seems to be a word used to try and make something sound better than it was ) season to the end of September would be madness - with an October full of crap racing except for G1 2 yo races .
I would suggest that we could do this by bringing the end of the season forward a week - giving Donny the week before so that the Racing Post Trophy and the October Hcap as it would be known could be run then
Then upgrade Champions Day and start the racing a bit earlier in the day - the 3 weeks would allow horses from the Arc meeting more time to recover
and do the following as well as the Champion and Dewhurst
Upgrade the Challenge , Jockey Club Cup and Rockfel to Group 1 races
Add a Group 1 sprint - why should we have two months of the season without one and very few sprinters want to go to the US and run on dirt ?
So we would end with a meeting of six Group One races and the G2 Pride stakes !
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I would suspect the European pattern committee would not allow another Group 1 for 2 year old fillys so close to the Bousacc or a Group 1 over 7 furlongs so close to the Foret and the staying Group 1 as well so close to the Cadran....if you make these Group 1's too numerous you will just end up with a great looking card on paper but with actually very little in the races.
Longchamp is a bit of a monster now while the Breeders Cup is high up on the Coolmore priority list - whatever end of season affair in the UK is always going to be missing some major players. It is around 10 years too late.
Longchamp is a bit of a monster now while the Breeders Cup is high up on the Coolmore priority list - whatever end of season affair in the UK is always going to be missing some major players. It is around 10 years too late.
I disagree
1 There is no late season 7f G1 for 2 yo fillies - if the Dewhurst does not trash the Grand Criterium why would a G1 Rockfel - inrecent years quite a few Rockfel Stakes ' have been of G 1 quality.
2 The Challenge until recent years was always a couple of weeks before the Foret - I cannot see why 3 weeks after it , it would spoil the former. It could well attract say the Delegators of this world .
3 There is no G1 2m race in Europe at all . Hence ,it ought to be attractive especially to horses whom Melbourne would not suit.
Harbinger
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You can't just upgrade races because you want to. Not clashing with other races is just one of the factors - the actual quality of the race has to be up to snuff in the first place.
As it stands, prior to the running and rating of this year's renewals:
- The Rockfel exceeds the rating criteria for upgrading to Group 1.
- The Challenge does not, but a couple of classy renewals might put it over the top.
- The Jockey Club Cup doesn't even exceed the rating criteria for upgrading to Group 2
As it stands, prior to the running and rating of this year's renewals:
- The Rockfel exceeds the rating criteria for upgrading to Group 1.
- The Challenge does not, but a couple of classy renewals might put it over the top.
- The Jockey Club Cup doesn't even exceed the rating criteria for upgrading to Group 2
Isn't this however missing the point . These races would become up to snuff if they were upgraded . Also why not a new G1 sprint at the end of the season ?
The RP has all the feedback it needs in the comments allowed below each story. If they bothered to read them (And sift through the rubbish which is written) they will get all the guidance they need. They are too busy promoting the bookmakers though, I am not capable of competing with the financial clout of the bookie chaps. Lots of back scratching going on...
Racing's biggest decision is whether it is a sport or a betting product. Once it makes that decision and communicates it clearly to the racing public then everyone will know where they stand. Sadly that will never happen because there would be uproar when they authorities finally admit whose really in charge...
Bring on those 14 runner 0-55 handicaps... Superstars galore..
Actually, as an owner of one of those low-rated nags, I would love for there to be enough 0-55 handicaps so that she could rise through the ratings. As it is, there aren't enough to take the entries. It's a very sad situation for young horses who've been run to get a handicap rating at age 2 (I hate 2 y.o. racing - I didn't own her then), and due to being forced into early racing by their owners, have come out with shit ratings.
Not all horses are superstars as babies. Most, to be honest, need time to strengthen and grow, and considering that horses aren't even always fully matured by eight, for some that can be quite a few years. There are few 2 y.o.'s who go on, due to the stresses on their immature systems, so if you have a brilliant early 'child', you're very lucky indeed if it goes on to be a brilliant grown-up.
I don't bet - I don't class perhaps a dozen £5 e/w punts a year to be worthy of calling it betting! - so I'm not interested in racing as a betting medium, but of course it is part of the wider world of gambling and chance. And that is a very wide world indeed, and worth trillions worldwide. That's inescapable. What isn't inescapable, also, is that with more huge betting businesses buggering-off offshore, even less money will be put into racing. If you want to have high quality racing at 'superstar' level only, then you'll have, given today's dominance by the few super-rich owners, a very tiny market to play with. You might despise lowly horses, but they are underpinning the elitism of the few, and their owners - paying the same fees as the super-wedged - are getting feckall back, thank you, punters.
I'm disappointed that, given your feelings, you won't write a full letter, though. Those 'comments' are mostly for saying 'well done' to superstar horses or for the bilious to whinge about their losing bets and blame it on the superstar jockeys, I've found. In other words, they're for people to have a meaningless bellow most of the time - a really cogent letter is around the 130 mark, to their 0-55.
Not all horses are superstars as babies. Most, to be honest, need time to strengthen and grow, and considering that horses aren't even always fully matured by eight, for some that can be quite a few years. There are few 2 y.o.'s who go on, due to the stresses on their immature systems, so if you have a brilliant early 'child', you're very lucky indeed if it goes on to be a brilliant grown-up.
I don't bet - I don't class perhaps a dozen £5 e/w punts a year to be worthy of calling it betting! - so I'm not interested in racing as a betting medium, but of course it is part of the wider world of gambling and chance. And that is a very wide world indeed, and worth trillions worldwide. That's inescapable. What isn't inescapable, also, is that with more huge betting businesses buggering-off offshore, even less money will be put into racing. If you want to have high quality racing at 'superstar' level only, then you'll have, given today's dominance by the few super-rich owners, a very tiny market to play with. You might despise lowly horses, but they are underpinning the elitism of the few, and their owners - paying the same fees as the super-wedged - are getting feckall back, thank you, punters.
I'm disappointed that, given your feelings, you won't write a full letter, though. Those 'comments' are mostly for saying 'well done' to superstar horses or for the bilious to whinge about their losing bets and blame it on the superstar jockeys, I've found. In other words, they're for people to have a meaningless bellow most of the time - a really cogent letter is around the 130 mark, to their 0-55.
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