New initiatives

Half of Group 1s are run on weekdays.

Why are there three Group 1s on the Tuesday of Royal Ascot, and only one on the Saturday? At least one of the Queen Anne and St James's Palace should be moved to the Saturday.

Why don't they swap the Sussex and Nassau in the program at Goodwood, so that the the best of their races gets a bigger showcase? (Ouija vs Alexander Goldrun notwithstanding)

Why don't York move their meeting back one day, and move the International to the Saturday? Similarly Newmarket with the July Cup (which has been mooted)?

How about Epsom moving their Oaks day on the Friday to the Sunday?

Having the Oaks on the Sunday would have the same affect as they have at Newmarket with the 1000 Guineas on the Sunday - the highlight of the meeting i.e. The Derby/200 Guineas has been and gone half way through the first day and the rest of the meeting is something of an anticlimax after that. No disprespect intended to the good fillies that we've seen over the years but generally it's the colts' races which are the main highlight, especially with the Derby. If you're trying to encourage people to go racing, or even watch on tv, who wouldn't normally then personally I think you need to build up to the main race(s) rather than have them done and dusted right at the beginning of a meeting.
 
Royal Ascot midweek is full of people "there for the racing" is it? First i knew of it....
 
I'm with David. Why does the entire racing calendar have to be turned upside down to get everything run on a Saturday?

And I'll ask you the same question I asked David:

Would you feel the same if work commitments left you unable to see any of the weekday Group 1s at all?

(assume for a second that you actually wanted to see flat Group 1s :D)
 
Having the Oaks on the Sunday would have the same affect as they have at Newmarket with the 1000 Guineas on the Sunday - the highlight of the meeting i.e. The Derby/200 Guineas has been and gone half way through the first day and the rest of the meeting is something of an anticlimax after that. No disprespect intended to the good fillies that we've seen over the years but generally it's the colts' races which are the main highlight, especially with the Derby. If you're trying to encourage people to go racing, or even watch on tv, who wouldn't normally then personally I think you need to build up to the main race(s) rather than have them done and dusted right at the beginning of a meeting.

I think that's a good point imagine, and whilst it might go against changing the Derby meeting much, it also supports the general idea of moving the biggest festival Group 1s to the end of their meetings, preferably on a Saturday.

Again, as much as I like the first day of Royal Ascot, I really can't find any logic to justify having 40% of the meeting's Group 1 races over and done with after just 4 races on the opening Tuesday!
 
Point of order, Ms. Leader.

"spot-the-sober-man" - I appreciate that "man" in this case is probably an all-encompassing generalisation but I have to point out that it is often just as difficult to find a sober "woman" at a racecourse.;)

Or anywhere else, for that matter.
 
I like the fact that some of the best days racing are during the week. The thought of Juddmonte International day turning in to days like John Smith's Cup day would be enough to put me off going.

I strongly agree with DJ and SL.

Gareth, I can see your point, but first of all, having Group 1s during the week means they have no competition regarding other sports, secondly this is one aspect of racing's (flat) heritage that should be maintained, and thirdly, can you imagine the difference in crowd that would be there on a Saturday?

I have no problem taking a couple of day's vacation to see the midweek racing I wish to see, and those I can't I will watch replays of in the evening. If work commitments mean I can't see a race live, well then that is just tough luck. Either I will take a day's vacation, watch it during lunch or watch a replay in the evening.

Clive, yes, you are correct about Ascot but i think that is a one off. Generally, it is much more enjoyable to attend racing at a packed midweek meeting than a packed weekend meeting, and usually the crowd will have a higher percentage of racing enthusiasts, and a lower percentage of people there just to get pissed.
 
Gareth, I can see your point, but first of all, having Group 1s during the week means they have no competition regarding other sports

Probably because no other sport is stupid enough to schedule so many of it's biggest events when the least people can see them :) It's a good point though, if essentially admitting defeat for the sport ever attracting truly mainstream interest.

secondly this is one aspect of racing's (flat) heritage that should be maintained

I'm not advocating the destruction of festivals, or anything like it. It's just about being a bit smarter about the scheduling within the festivals.

, and thirdly, can you imagine the difference in crowd that would be there on a Saturday?

I don't understand. The last two meetings I've been to were the Eclipse and the Derby and I had a great time both days.

I have no problem taking a couple of day's vacation to see the midweek racing I wish to see, and those I can't I will watch replays of in the evening. If work commitments mean I can't see a race live, well then that is just tough luck. Either I will take a day's vacation, watch it during lunch or watch a replay in the evening.

I'm pretty much the same, but we're hardly representative of the problem, are we? How many fans do you think the sport can attract by telling them that they'll have to use up their annual leave if they want to see many of the best races on offer?
 
I'm pretty much the same, but we're hardly representative of the problem, are we? How many fans do you think the sport can attract by telling them that they'll have to use up their annual leave if they want to see many of the best races on offer?

Again, I see your point, but there are more than enough top class races at the weekend to encourage new racing fans to see top level Group 1 racing.
 
So we leave everything as is because everythings rosy?

Bookmakers leaving the UK, TV deals hanging by a thread, dwindling younger audience, bad PR etc etc....

In my opinion in 10 years racing will get around 30 days a year max on TV and bookmakers will have expanded their portfolio's enough to allow their sponsorship of our great sport to dwindle and we'll end being a backwater sport which only people like us who post on forums will follow.... Depressing.
 
Not sure are you referring to me but my only point concerns midweek Group racing, not leaving the rest of racing as is.
 
There are two different tendencies showing on this thread. One is to keep the plebs away from racecourses, the other is to make racing more user friendly.

The plebs used to congregate in betting shops, feed their money into the sport (or at least whatever was left of it after the bookies took their cut) and curse their luck when Frankie/Fallon/Lester got it wrong again, which they somehow seemed to do all the time apart from when they won. Although betting on horses every day, the idea of actually going to a meeting would never have occurred to the vast majority of betting shop punters, which suited the toffs in charge of racing just fine.

Recently, however, the punting plebs have not been so obliging, allowing themselves to be distracted by other sports and flashing lights. What to do, as levy returns start to stagnate or even decline? Some would force them to bet on racing, like it or not, by establishing a tote monopoly, some would try to entice the betting shop punters and wider public onto the racecourses, and some would appear to want to do nothing. I think myself that the only realistic option is to try harder to bring racing to a wider public.

But British (flat) racing has another problem to face. It has always been dependent on a mix of domestic and foreign owners and breeders to maintain its quality. Many of them have been squeezed, however, by the competition between Coolmore and Godolphin. Where have all the American owners gone? Godolphin has faltered, however, and in any case it has diversified into chasing gold in other places, especially the USA and Australia, not to mention the Gulf states and Dubai itself. Coolmore could not survive without British racing, but it is not part of it. In short, the long term trend is that the quality of bloodstock going into training in Britain is in decline.
 
As someone whose interest in racing is on the wane and no longer makes a point of necessarily watching racing as a matter of course, I was struck this year by how much I found myself looking forward to the Grand Prix du Paris. In itself its a good race and has been a good Arc pointer so is able to stand on its own two feet, but it wouldn't normally be a race I'd make a point of trying to catch other than simply looking for the result and trying to disect it. Indeed, our own thread ran to something like 4 pages which it hasn't normally generated in years previous. I'm convinced the reason owed a lot to the fact it was scheduled for an evening slot and allowed a degree of build up and anticipation etc.

Athletics probably enjoyed something of a hey day in the late 70's early 80's when they typically got an early evening slot on Fridays, and people tuned in to passively watch what isn't one of the greater televisual sports afterall. Ski Sunday might have benefited from scenary (and I'm still convinced that was part of the reason) but in a conducive slot people seemed to similarly watch highlights programmes and build up a faimilarity with the competitors even though most of us wouldn't know the first damn thing about the technical side of the sport. I'd guess that even today, most people of that generation could rattle off about half a dozen skiers names from the late 70's, and you were some how eventually sucked into supporting either Switzerland or the Austrians (I suppose most of us went for that latter because they had Klammer - but there was also the Canadians in their yellow suits who presented as being the under dog interlopers).

Where's this taking me? Might the answer lie in scheduling rather than race dates/ days. Newmarkets July meeting would be an obvious candidate to be pushed back a few hours. I'm not sure it would work with York or Goodwood because of the appalling traffic problems. Doncaster minus Leger day would be another candidate.
 
It would also lessen the blow of taking a days holiday because you could cut it down to a half day or none at all if you live close enough to the track..

Punchestown seemed to work ok - Was anyone there? I know a lot of day travellers from the UK were annoyed as it made it difficult to do the trip in one day but I thought it was generally hailed as a success..
 
I can see the logic in the strong Ascot Tuesday. It is the day which is least naturally likely to attract a crowd, so its simply boosted with quality. Goodwood first day is similarly strong compared with the others. Four group ones would be wasted on the sell out ladies day or perhaps the supposedly boozy Saturday (i sense that some posters dislike weekend racegoers full stop).
 
The Chester May Meeting and York's Dante meeting has already moved from Tue, Wed, Thu to Wed, Thu, Fri to accomodate sponsors and corporate clients

Regarding Punchestown - The concern of a repeat of 3.45 starts will stop me going this year having attended the last 4 of them.
 
I much prefer evening meetings but the Brigadier Gerrard was dead when I went this year, despite it being one of the best meetings I've ever attended. It did help that I required a wheelbarrow to get home though.
 
It would also lessen the blow of taking a days holiday because you could cut it down to a half day or none at all if you live close enough to the track..

Punchestown seemed to work ok - Was anyone there? I know a lot of day travellers from the UK were annoyed as it made it difficult to do the trip in one day but I thought it was generally hailed as a success..

I absolutely loved it.....big success for me and many others who I have talked to.
 
I didn't say everyone goes to Royal Ascot for the racing Clive - read the whole post, I said you get more people at the midweek Festivals for the racing rather than for just a jolly up however I fully realise (as I said in my post, had you read a little further) that people do go to Ascot [in particular, but others also] for just a day out. However the dynamic of the crowd changes completely as you get to the end of the week - Friday and Saturday are nothing more than a drunken, disorderly, often violent, free-for-all.

Is that really the way we want racing to go? As that will ultimately drive crowds away from the races; if they know that all they are going to encounter are large groups of revoltingly drunk people on hen or stag parties then eventually people will start to stay at home to watch the racing instead.

I don't see the point in moving all Group Ones to a Saturday, I can't see that it would serve much purpose and it would destroy an already decimated racing calendar that is only so to keep sponsors happy and appeal to plastered Saturday crowds. Can't some things be left as they are, not least if they work perfectly well as they are at the moment?
 
Last edited:
I'd like to see more run on Sundays and evenings (tend to agree with the bookmakers that it's silly trying to take football on in the season on a Saturday). It doesn't work perfectly well, attendances for some Group races are poor and it doesn't give non racing fanatics the chance to see the race if it's ran at 2.30 on a Wednesday afternoon.

People are much more likely to make an effort to bet, watch or even attend a top class race if it's in the evening or on the weekend when they're not working.
 
Indeed, Gamla. It doesn't really matter to me whether it's a Saturday, Sunday or weekday evening. You've just got to give potential fans of the sport a chance to be able to see the best races.

What would the Oaks card be like run as an evening meet, for example? In from work, feet up, Coronation Cup at 7pm, Oaks at 7:40pm. (Or head to the course after work if you're in the vicinity; only need to take a half day if you need to travel a bit).
 
Back
Top