Nicholls v Mullins

Tanlic said:
How do you mean.........I went through every entry and have every possible prize on a spreadsheet. Do You?

Am I not entitled to come to my own conclusions and post them?

PN is chasing a bunch of small prizes whereas WPM is gong for the bigger prizes with better horses

Looking at today races PN ran a 2 miler good ground horse on soft Ground over 2m5f chancing his arm as he should

I took some time to look and a lot of his entries this week are like that so I am not expecting fireworks and I am being extremely generous saying he'll add 30% of the prize money to his tally

Whereas WPM's Perth entries look more sound to me and IMO more likely to bring home more bacon and reduce the deficit not PN increase it.

If that seems illogical to you then fair enough but it seems to make sense to me and I reach my own conclusions not follow some guy on Twitter who to me is wrong.
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Erm, the guy on Twitter has been sending WPN his spreadsheet, have you?
 
Not very logical thing to do WPM would have had more use of them,,,,lotta good a dead preacher has for them WPN = William Patteson Nicholson (3 April 1876 – 29 October 1959[1]) was a Presbyterian preacher and evangelist born in Bangor, County Down, Ireland.:lol:
 
Morale of the story is no Vatour at Sandown would make it very hard for WPM to win.
 
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I remember asking PFN during his peak years if he had many interest in winning the Irish trainers title.

He said it was in the back of his head but logistically didn't think it was possible for a trainer to win both
 
There are in fact two stables with more prize money than Nicholls this year, whatever happens this week. WPM has more double his tally and Gordon Elliott is nicely ahead of him too.
 
I wonder is Vautour in the entries for the Celebration Chase - then probably unwise dropping a recent faller back in trip .
 
There were 9 horses quoted before the entries were made and 9 horses entered. The only noticeable change on the machine was the few hundred quid @ 2.58 and 2.5 offered about Sprinter Sacre was snatched up just prior to the 9 being declared. So doubtful there are any surprises unless WPM has a change of heart overnight.

He'd probably win the title if UDS beat Sprinter Sacre but with Vautour and Vroom Vroom Mag or Shaneshill very likely winners for Mullins a 2nd prize of 28,000 pick up by UDS would be more than enough to take the title.

Time will tell
 
JamesRB said:
no vautour for the celebration chase so mullins chance probably lies with UDS beating SS or winning the bet365 gold cup

nicholls 10/11 with victor is a bet
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I agree for two reasons 1)I think he is the probable winner 2)it's not out of the question that Willie diverts his main Sandown entries to Punchestown.
 
You're all missing the logic of this market. The expected prize money dictates that there will be a cigarette paper between them at the death. The idea that 4/5 Nicholls is value is just wrong. I'll find you 10 better 4/5 shots between here and the weekend.
 
Well he has entered Douvan and Vautour in the Celebration Chase but that could be because of the drying ground which UDS doesn't want.
Too dry and UDS can still run in Ireland but that would leave Douvan as the most likely replacement as Vautour has another engagement.


Absolutely no reaction from the bookies yet.. should be interesting when they wake up
 
Wake up to what?

PP went 8/11 from 4/5. The needle has hardly moved. What was expected is happening.
 
To the distinct possibility UDS might not be WPM representative on Saturday.

WPM will weigh up the situation and make decision at the 11th hour

And You PP or the man on the moon don't have a clue what he'll do as he clearly, at this time, has no way of knowing himself

There has been some minor interest on Douvan at 2/1 and Vautour at 7/2 but like everyone they are guessing
 
Tanlic said:
To the distinct possibility UDS might not be WPM representative on Saturday.

WPM will weigh up the situation and make decision at the 11th hour

And You PP or the man on the moon don't have a clue what he'll do as he clearly, at this time, has no way of knowing himself

There has been some minor interest on Douvan at 2/1 and Vautour at 7/2 but like everyone they are guessing
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We know for certain he will have a runner in the race. Therefore he is highly likely to take at least 2nd place prize money. You really are making a lot out of nothing.
 
Diamond Geezer said:
I appreciate that officially the trainer's title is decided on prize money, but how many think it should be on number of winners like the jockey's title ? I'm also wondering that if entry fees and supplements were deducted from prize money how much different the table would look ( if at all )
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Agree on both points. Mullins has had a fifth of Nichols winners in numerical terms. Of course its never going to be any other way but its too skewed.

the championship should reflect results at all levels right through the season. It's a bit ridiculous that someone can win it with 20 odd winners by fortune of having a clutch of fine horses

also the national, which did work in Nichols favour of course, skews it even more.
 
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Yes, and it's a bit ridiculous that football clubs can get to win a few matches to take the Champions League by fortune of having a clutch of fine players. :blink:
 
Grey said:
Yes, and it's a bit ridiculous that football clubs can get to win a few matches to take the Champions League by fortune of having a clutch of fine players. :blink:
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very good example. The Premiership even better. How do you think you become a football league champion?

the value of the matches won (so called big games as opposed to routine) or the number of matches won?

yes???
 
clivex said:
very good example. The Premiership even better. How do you think you become a football league champion?

the value of the matches won (so called big games as opposed to routine) or the number of matches won?

yes???
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But trainers can choose where they run their horses and against what opposition. The extension of the football analogy is that you could become premier league champion by choosing to beat league two opposition repeatedly and often.
 
It wouldn't be an issue if UK racing didn't concentrate its prize-money in a small number of races at the expense of the 'bread and butter' racing. A bumper in Ireland is worth about twice as much as one in the UK.
It wouldn't worry me if UK titles were restricted to money earned by horses trained in the UK but while the rules are what they are it's a bit over the top to be having a go at Mullins and Gigginstown for having the courtesy to run their good horses over here. At least they haven't descended to the unseemly goings on of a few years ago when Nicholls and Pipe were going head to head all round the country. Horses run at wrong distances on unsuitable going just in case the few hundred quid might make a difference.
 
BennyB said:
But trainers can choose where they run their horses and against what opposition. The extension of the football analogy is that you could become premier league champion by choosing to beat league two opposition repeatedly and often.
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Im not extending the analogy. Why? I didn't bring it up

I think its more pertinent that you would be higher up a league table for beating Man city , Arsenal and Chelsea say than Norwich Sunderland Palace West brom Watford

I dont know what the answer is and not sure it matters anyway

It was a stupid example to be swatted away
 
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archie said:
It wouldn't be an issue if UK racing didn't concentrate its prize-money in a small number of races at the expense of the 'bread and butter' racing. A bumper in Ireland is worth about twice as much as one in the UK.
It wouldn't worry me if UK titles were restricted to money earned by horses trained in the UK but while the rules are what they are it's a bit over the top to be having a go at Mullins and Gigginstown for having the courtesy to run their good horses over here. At least they haven't descended to the unseemly goings on of a few years ago when Nicholls and Pipe were going head to head all round the country. Horses run at wrong distances on unsuitable going just in case the few hundred quid might make a difference.
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The first and last points are true but who's "having a go"?
 
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