Not looking good across the water

Hamm said:
Also, they could look at the atmosphere at Irish courses/facilities etc.

Longchamp for the Arc meeting is as good as flat racing gets - I'm not saying this is easily replicated, but if a racing weekend in France can draw 10000 British racegoers, there must be the potential for Irish racing to do something similar, albeit on a smaller scale.
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Punchestown gets a lot of British racegoers at a time when they can choose between Cheltenham and Aintree at home. so doesn't do badly and Naas is not capable of taking 10,000 visitors staying so would have to stay in Dublin. What helps Longchamp is that its in the middle (almost) of Paris. so if you could move Punchestown to Leopardstown I think it would do really well with visitors.

If you have top class racing for €4 in then people will come. To get €4 racing, Ireland needs a tote monopoly like France. That's the price you pay, although having six group 1s on one day is the main draw!!
 
All fair points - sorry, should have clarified I was just referring to the flat.

Didn't see your previous post Gareth.
 
The Irish Leger and Irish Champion moving to the same card would also allow them to position it better in order that both avoid the (Doncaster) Leger in most years. Plus, it would end the monopoly that the Curragh has over the Classics, which wouldn't be a bad thing IMO.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
The Irish Leger and Irish Champion moving to the same card would also allow them to position it better in order that both avoid the (Doncaster) Leger in most years. Plus, it would end the monopoly that the Curragh has over the Classics, which wouldn't be a bad thing IMO.
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As a concept I kind of like it but I don't see it attracting a bigger crowd. Also seeing as The Irish Leger is all age it would fit nicely. Not a snow balls chance in hell of them changing it though.
 
I think moving the National Stakes as well and being able to market it as the biggest day's (flat) racing of the year would help bump up the interest, crowd, coverage etc.
 
I don't understand the need in some quarters to have an end of season event in Ireland or GB. Flat racing is not like that imo - the Arc weekend (despite being in France) is the meeting above all in Europe and desperately pulling races together to compete is only going to fail to match up.

They moved the National Stakes onto the same day as The Irish Leger already last year and I think it worked well (but for the conditons on the day).
 
Do you not think Irish racing would benefit from having a day (or days) where people from different countries think 'that's unmissable'? Of course travelling for the Champion Stakes alone is worth it most years but the type of day where people decide early on in the year they will go. It doesn't need to be comparable to the Arc, but that template could be a good starting point.

I agree to an extent with your point that flat racing is not like that what with the pattern etc, but the races are there, it's only a matter of moving 1/2 by a week or so.
 
As for the all-aged Group 1 races - yeah it sounds nice in theory but in truth you will just be making more opportunities for a limited pool of horses - leading to big clashes never taking place. Like when would a 1m4f Group 1 - all aged - fit in after the King George when most of those horses are having a break with the Arc/Irish Champion Stakes in mind for later in the season? It would end up being a trial for the Irish Leger.
 
Galileo said:
As for the all-aged Group 1 races - yeah it sounds nice in theory but in truth you will just be making more opportunities for a limited pool of horses - leading to big clashes never taking place. Like when would a 1m4f Group 1 - all aged - fit in after the King George when most of those horses are having a break with the Arc/Irish Champion Stakes in mind for later in the season? It would end up being a trial for the Irish Leger.
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It could replace the Tattersalls Gold Cup? This would mean in terms of Irish racing there is one 1m2 race and one 1m4 race for the all aged group. It would also be better for the European pattern with one Group 1 at:
1 mile - Lockinge
1m1 - Isaphan
1m2.5 - Ganay
1m4 - New race in Ireland
all prior to June.
 
Problem there is that it would still be only open to older horses and in direct competition with the Coronation Cup (there can be as few as five days between the two races at the moment).
 
But then you take away from the Irish Guineas weekend as an overall package.

To be honest I think the TGC barely gets by as it is as a Group 1, and a lot of its appeal is that it can be a "cheap" ~10f Group 1 that 12f horses can be aimed at.
 
I have to be honest and say that both of you are trying to fix a problem that does not exist. The Irish pattern is not perfect but what countries is?
 
France's is pretty good. Same in US from what i see but I don't follow this closely.

There is a clear effort in the UK to change this, but nothing seems to be happening in Ireland (small change at the end of last season aside).
 
I'd be interested to know what the crowds are like in Longchamp on the days they would have had Group 1s there if they didn't push them all into that Arc weekend. There is a commercial point here too. Having four group 1s on four days might attract a bigger crowd that having the four group 1s on the one day. It's fine in France to try it as they control their own destiny by having a tote monopoly but courses in Ireland need to be commercial and a smaller crowd four times might be better than a bigger crowd on one day.
 
Well said Cantoris. The group 1s in Ireland deserve to dominate a card. Irish racing has far more quality over quantity.
 
eh no it doesn't - why do Irish horses have to race abroad (France often) if their races have more quality? I wouldn't say one of UK, France or Ireland are noticeably ahead of the others - maybe UK lowest because of the large amount of poor quality races.

Cantoris, i see your point about adding these up and would be interested if you/or anyone else would be able to approximate these in hard figures (I would do it myself but don't know enough about Irish racing.
 
Well 8,000 went to see the champ Sea The Stars in Leopardstown (albeit that was a big GAA weekend so might not be a true representation but still useful to use as you don't get an attraction like Sea The Stars every year). And doesn't that already include the Group 1 Matron Stakes?? Anyway, if you add a few more Group 1's you might, might, double the crowd to 16,000. Now, would you get 4,000 on each of the days a Group 1 is on? We're not talking about adding 20,000 people by putting on an extra few Group 1s. Although Gal would say that the flat is best in Ireland, the people have voted countless times through the stiles and will support a national meeting of poor races in Kilbeggan more than a decent flat card in the likes of the Curragh/Leopardstown. So you won't get 20,000 unless it's Derby day.
 
Hamm said:
eh no it doesn't - why do Irish horses have to race abroad (France often) if their races have more quality? I wouldn't say one of UK, France or Ireland are noticeably ahead of the others - maybe UK lowest because of the large amount of poor quality races.
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Like I've said before I don't think racing should be looked at within International borders.
 
Hamm said:
eh no it doesn't - why do Irish horses have to race abroad (France often) if their races have more quality? I wouldn't say one of UK, France or Ireland are noticeably ahead of the others - maybe UK lowest because of the large amount of poor quality races.

Cantoris, i see your point about adding these up and would be interested if you/or anyone else would be able to approximate these in hard figures (I would do it myself but don't know enough about Irish racing.
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Coming from someone who thinks there is no group 1 over 1m 4f all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion.
 
If its in writing Its fair game to have go! On a point o changing certain races. I think opening up the Irish Ledger was a positive move to make it more meaningfull but in the UK the upgrade of the Victor Chandler to a non-handicap cost racing fans one of the best races on the jumping calendar.
 
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