Not looking good across the water

I don't think so. I'd say owners have changed their view. The days of lads waiting for two or three years for their horse to win, because they ar becakward, are long gone. They want wins now so they are back to buying horses in training. Which was the case years ago until they got too expensive. A bumper winner in Ireland at the height of the boom was €300k, whereas now you can pick the same one up for €150k (or more if you're Kiely). It drove lads into buying stores for €50k. Now they are back to buying bumper horses until the store prices drop enough to tempt them back. But god, €50k as top lot is a far cry from the sale topping €220k a few years ago!!
 
€220k was never going to last like everything else over here - granted €50k is the other extreme but it will find a middle ground over the next couple of years.
 
Gal, you're spot on. Store horses were going for mad money. but just look at the price of Kiely's horse recently.......£300k.....and it hasn't even won a race. I was making the argument earlier in the year to Colm that we should prob try to buy a horse out of a bumper for our €25/30k. we mightn't get a winner but maybe a horse placed in a bumper with a bit of potential. Would save us having a store horse in training for a few years before getting to the track. That thought was shattered by the prices paid recently for bumper winners. It's now gone the other way. If a bumper winner is €100k minumum, then there has to be value in picking up a nice store horse for €15/20k.
 
Galileo said:
€220k was never going to last like everything else over here
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And I think it was Michael O'Leary that paid it. I recall Michael Daly buying Fota Island's sister for €350k at the Derby sale a few years back!! You can pick up a bumper runner up for that now!!
 
Track form, be it in a point or, better yet, a bumper, is an absolute must in this market. Anybody looking to shift a decent young pointer would want to be winning well either first or second time out or they would be in serious trouble.
 
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Thanks for the insights, folks. I guess Ireland was enjoying an enormous bubble which, like the South Sea version of yore, has well and truly burst. But how amazing are even the lower prices for jumping horses, still? What a huge turnaround in their sales prices at any level, from point or bumper winner to experienced hand, from just a few years ago, when they were very much the poor cousin to the Flat. It's very pleasing that the trend continues at the 50/60K mark, even if the bloated prices on the crest of a financial wave have, like the crates of Krug sprayed over night-club dancers, become history.

Well, for the time being, anyway, until the Chinese take seriously to the game in the flesh, not just on the monitors! Or the (south) Koreans - a KTC contingent visited Lingfield a couple of meetings ago - they apparently have five courses in the country - and with decent rainfall there, why doesn't Ireland market the idea of jumps racing and hive off some foundation horses? There are some rather good emerging markets which could be just the tonic to revive sellers' fortunes, with a proactive input from Ireland's course management. There's the skill base to sell from ground up, then the actual horses to fill the races.
 
Do you think young Koreans would be as willing to risk their necks over jumps or would we have to send them jockeys as well?

My marketing suggestion is to introduce a new type of claiming race, where members of the public can claim any unplaced horse they fancy and take it home to eat. It would be a useful way to deal with the surplus and encourage horses to try that bit harder in their races.
 
The overall results from Goffs were a little more positive. From talking to colm and a few others who were buying and selling, it appears the first day was poor compared to the second day. There was a lack of big english owners/trainers with the smaller trainers picking up a few. the big guns are waiting for the Derby sale. All reports were that nice horses were getting nice money but that €25k was plenty to get a nice horse. The overall average was around the same as last year as was the clearance rate.
 
Well, Grey, young Japanese seem quite happy to ride in the Nakayama Grand Jump, so why not young Koreans? It's not as if one needs to have a national heritage in jumps riding to do this sort of thing, as we're proving with our 'summer jumping', extending racing over obstacles to an all-year activity. As for Koreans being willing to risk their necks - why not? Far Eastern countries have a strong, honour-bound tradition in physical bravery and rigour, honed through centuries of bloody wars against each other, which stands anyone in good stead for a comparatively safe few minutes on board. The good thing is they won't be ritually disembowelled or decapitated if they fail to please with a winning ride - a bit namby-pamby, some will probably think, and a sop to the feeble West, but it'll hearten any visiting foreign riders, I'm sure.
 
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You'd never have known there was blood on the street if you were at the Derby sales last week. Ok, the bottom third were still struggling to get sold but generally there was a problem with them and they didn't appeal. We had €25k to spend and I thought we'd be bidding away, just like last year. I'd say we bid three times over two days. Just couldn't get into the market. The middle was quite strong and you needed €30-40k to secure the horse you liked with any sort of a page. We were lucky to pick one up near the end when things got quieter.

That brings me to the top lots. Is it any surprise that once a Presenting was the top selling gelding at €320k that a Coolmore stallion would guzump him by €5k, sold to Bobby O'Ryan who said "he's been bought for an existing client and he might be staying in Ireland". I'd be amazed if this horse did not end up running in the colours of Magnier, McManus or an associate. Coolmore also had the top filly. Nice to see Alan Potts buying plenty. I think he spent €800k and Gigginstown were also busy. So between Coolmore, McManus, Potts and Giggenstown, the top end was very healthy and that's before you count the english buyers.

This is the last year lot of the expensive 2007 foals and next year vendors should be back to making a profit.
 
2011 Fixture List Announced
Total Number of Fixtures Reduced by 10​

The 2011 Fixture List has been released today (Monday 6th September 2010) by Horse Racing Ireland.

The key points in relation to the 2011 Fixture List are as follows:-
The total number of fixtures has been reduced by 10 from 345 to 335.
The Flat season will start at the Curragh on Sunday 20th March and end at Dundalk on Friday 16th December.
The Fairyhouse Easter Festival will be run from 24th – 26th April, and due to the late date of Easter, the Punchestown Festival will be run from 3rd – 7th May and the Killarney Spring Festival from 15th – 17th May.
The number of racing days has increased from 264 to 267.

Total Number of Fixtures

Given the falling horse population (down 13% at the end of August) and the reduced levels of entries and runners (down 22% and 5% respectively for the first eight months), for the second year a reduction in the total number of fixtures has been approved by the HRI Board. Racecourses to lose fixtures are Cork, the Curragh, Dundalk (2), Fairyhouse, Limerick, Listowel, Punchestown, Sligo and Tipperary.
2. Start/End of the Seasons

Flat – The Flat season will now revert to starting with the traditional opening meeting of the season at the Curragh on Sunday 20th March and its conclusion has been extended by one week to Friday evening 16th December at Dundalk.

National Hunt – The Punchestown Festival will have a later date than normal (3rd – 7th May) in 2011 due to the late date of Easter, with the result that the 2010/11 National Hunt season will end on Saturday 7th May.

3. Saturday Evenings

The total number of Saturday evenings has been reduced from the seven staged in 2010. The two fixtures affected are at Kilbeggan in late April and at Dundalk in early November, both of which have moved a day earlier to Friday evenings. The schedule of Saturday evenings for 2011 is shown below:


Date
Racecourse
May 14th
Kilbeggan
June 11th
Limerick
June 2nd
Bellewstown
August 6th
Kilbeggan
August 13th
Tramore


4. Number of Racedays

The number of calendar days with no racing has been reduced from 101 to 98.This means that there will be three more days with Irish racing in 2011 compared with 2010, which will benefit off-course betting turnover, while the reduction in clashing fixtures will also produce reduced costs for the industry.

Commenting on the 2011 Fixture List, Brian Kavanagh, Chief Executive of HRI, said: "HRI has adopted a prudent course of action in agreeing the 2011 fixture list, faced with a 13% drop in the number of horses in training and the need to maintain the vitality of the racecourse sector. Irish racecourses have fought successfully to attract and hold race-goers in a declining leisure market and, so far this year, have kept attendance levels ahead of the same period last year. All sectors of the industry have endured severe cuts in recent years and the loss of traditional horse-related employment in rural areas is of particular concern. For these reasons the reduction in fixtures has been kept at a modest level, reflecting our confidence that the Government’s close engagement on the issue and the broad acceptance of the need for change among bookmakers has opened up a real prospect that a secure future funding basis will be achieved which will allow the industry to return to growth".
 
It could have been a lot worse. Considering the drop in prizemoney, I'm still amazed that you have flat maidens worth €18k!!
 
Any sense of what the response has been like to the Go Racing Club initiative so far?

My impression is that a better job could possibly have been done publicising it. It's gotten to the stage where people who were regular race-goers for years just can't be bothered to go racing. Something like this would have a good chance of getting them back though. I don't get that much of a chance to watch the racing channels but has this been advertised at all on ATR or even during the sport on terrestrial tele? Complete and utter madness if it hasn't.
 
I think the final couple of lines from Brian Kavanagh's statement are particularly interesting. The next couple of months are likely to reveal alot regarding the funding of Irish racing.
 
trackside528 said:
Any sense of what the response has been like to the Go Racing Club initiative so far?

My impression is that a better job could possibly have been done publicising it. It's gotten to the stage where people who were regular race-goers for years just can't be bothered to go racing. Something like this would have a good chance of getting them back though. I don't get that much of a chance to watch the racing channels but has this been advertised at all on ATR or even during the sport on terrestrial tele? Complete and utter madness if it hasn't.
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You're probably right that it should be better advertised, because it is a fantastic initiative. Aside from getting into a number of meetings free this year, Leopardstown on Saturday was 10 euros in for a top class card. The 10 euro entry included a free 3 euro Tote bet, a free cup of tea and coffee, not to mention access to a very comfortable lounge with sofas and plenty of space (great for families).
 
They might not want to advertise it too widely! There would have been plenty of people paying in full whack on Sat and the call will then be to just reduce the admission fee and offer the cuppa to everyone. I'm sure a marketing guru would turn around and say it is selective marketing for repeat customers. There could be an argument either way.
 
Gal - what does the 'broad acceptance of the need for change among bookmakers' mean? Is he implying that discussions have taken place and that Irish bookies are agreeing to throw a few more Euros into the prize bucket? If that's the case, why's it so bloody difficult in the UK?
 
krizon said:
Gal - what does the 'broad acceptance of the need for change among bookmakers' mean? Is he implying that discussions have taken place and that Irish bookies are agreeing to throw a few more Euros into the prize bucket? If that's the case, why's it so bloody difficult in the UK?
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Depends which bookmakers you ask - the course bookies who are going skint as the racecourses are asking them to stand and pay 5 times Tatt's entry on top of the cost of pitches, staff etc. whilst the racecourses provide high speed internet in corporate boxes for anyone who doesn't mind chipping in to hire one out or the major high street firms (a number of whom are based offshore) who use racing around the clock as a means to keep punters in the shops to play on the FOBT's.

I'd hazard that the "broad acceptance of change" means fewer meetings but more race days ie. less double headers of The Curragh and Tramore on a Sunday or Dundalk and Roscommon on a Friday evening etc. which would be of benefit to nearly all bookmakers - the course books who don't have to pick and choose which meetings to attend and the off-course firms who will still rely on the UK meetings to keep punters in the shops.
 
krizon said:
Gal - what does the 'broad acceptance of the need for change among bookmakers' mean? Is he implying that discussions have taken place and that Irish bookies are agreeing to throw a few more Euros into the prize bucket? If that's the case, why's it so bloody difficult in the UK?
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Alot of bookmakers (Paddy Power for instance) have vaguely agreed with the notion that they should be paying tax on their offshore betting. Now I am certain this is PR talk and they will be trying their best not to - but I think that is what he is getting at.
 
I was thinking of going to Fairyhouse tomorrow as Aladdins Cave is going there. One of the things to consider is the entrance price and whether I'm as well of just watching it at home. So I was delighted to read that Tote Go Racing members get free entry. As a result I am likely to buy a beef roll and a coffee while I'm there, and lose a few bob to the bookies. Just goes to show you what free entry can do!!
 
Just seen your reply, Gal - thanks for that. Jeez, sometimes you need to be Mystic Meg to understand the arcana of these pronouncements!

Cantoris, why aren't you getting free entry with your ROA/Owners Badge Scheme card? Doesn't Ireland run the same thing as Weatherbys here, where if you own up to 50% of a horse, you can apply for the free Owners Badge Scheme card (provided you've paid your £195 to join the Racehorse Owners Association first)? I'm amazed if it doesn't. You'd then get free entry all the time, regardless of having a horse running or not, other than for the festivals.
 
krizon said:
Cantoris, why aren't you getting free entry with your ROA/Owners Badge Scheme card? Doesn't Ireland run the same thing as Weatherbys here, where if you own up to 50% of a horse, you can apply for the free Owners Badge Scheme card (provided you've paid your £195 to join the Racehorse Owners Association first)? I'm amazed if it doesn't. You'd then get free entry all the time, regardless of having a horse running or not, other than for the festivals.
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Ha ha thought I was in fantasy land when I read that!! Our owners association is €65 to join and you get f*ck all for it (at the moment) except the insurance scheme. I'd happily pay more for free entry to the races. We only get that when we have a runner, and then only 4 badges.
 
WHAAAT? That's truly something for your OA to work on, then! That is the skinniest deal I know of. Arena Leisure gives 6 complimentary badges per runner (so that if you ran three horses in one meeting, you could actually claim 18 badges), Northern Racing gives a max of 8 comps and the same deal, and both let you buy almost unlimited extras at between half the Premier entrance price or at a very reasonable fee set by the course (a tenner in the case of Brighton). I think some of the indies, like Plumpton and Goodwood, allow 6 and extras at a certain price, but no-one I've heard of gives out only 4.

You can join the Owners Badge Scheme free if you're a member of the ROA and under the terms I mentioned. You get the excellent insurance scheme with the ROA and quite a lot of offers throughout the year, like heavy discounts for Cheltenham, Glorious Goodwood, etc.

I've used the card quite a lot this year - it's certainly more than paid for itself - and will be doing so again tomorrow at Plumpton. Most courses give out full owners' badges, too, although a few give out only Premier enclosure entry when you don't have a runner. And certainly at Lingfield and Brighton we let those with cards and no runners buy an extra one or two at the same deal described, which means a nicer day out for friends, with the use of the OTs bar and some sort of free refreshments.

I'm quite shocked by the meanness in Ireland!
 
krizon said:
I'm quite shocked by the meanness in Ireland!
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I'd agree. When we have a runner, I normally ring the course and ask for extra owners and trainers badges but you can sing for anymore entrance tickets. But at least all members can get into the O&T bar. When we had Brave Inca running, Fairyhouse were the only course who actually appreciated it and said "you're drawing a crowd, how many tickets do you want", whereas other tracks would argue with you over an extra five or six entrance tickets. We never ripped the piss. There were seven syndicatre members and with other halves we needed about 12/13 tickets. You'd swear you were about to break someone's legs!

I'm sure if the Irish owners association cahrged an extra €100 they could get owners badges like the UK. But before the insurance scheme, membership was quite low. Since the insurance scheme came in, there's been a four fold increase in membership. Now, with cash in the bank, it needs to be spent the right way. No Irish owners receives anything once they get into the track. Not even a free cup of coffee or a slice of cake. As a member of the Owners association council, I'm the youngest by a long way, with the next lad up a good bit younger than the next. I haven't been overly active over the last year due to work commitments but might start a bit more now. For example, there is a new draft sitting on the coffee table of the rules on laying since the HF finding, I also have the new policy re watering. And there are plenty of other areas to look at over the next year.
 
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