Paddy Power Gold Cup

Euronymous

Euronymous

Senior Jockey
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
19,123
Location
Leyland
9/2 Simonsig 162
5/1 Dynaste 159
10 C Conan 159
10 Rad Express 155
12 Ballynagour 143
12 Benefficient 154
12 Champ Court 157
12 Our Father 147
14 Module 152
14 Boston Bob 154
14 Colour Squad 139
14 Katenko 157
14 Unioniste 153
16 Changing Times 152
16 Hidden Cyclone 148
16 Third Intention 151
16 Walkon 151
 
I will be amazed if Henderson runs Simonsig in this under what would likely be a very big weight (it's presumably OR shown above, right?).

There is a Grade 2 (I think) Intermediate Chase at Sandown he likes to target with second-season chasers, on the Friday of the Tingle Creek meeting, and I reckon he's much more likely to run Simonsig there.

Not a race I'll be looking to get involved in until the entries are out, and there's a bit of price competition. There's nothing obvious that jumps out at me from those quoted.

I am feeling The Quickening though. :cool:
 
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Pipe two for me.

Dynaste could grind this one out but the fairy tale would be Our Father for David Johnson
 
Depends on the ground and the field make-up. Race turned into a right slog last year. Would have suited him.

Chasers and Hurdlers arrived in the post today and I'm off to Worcester for some gaff track jumping tomorrow. Nice to put an awful flat season to bed.
 
Euronymous said:
Depends on the ground and the field make-up. Race turned into a right slog last year. Would have suited him.

Chasers and Hurdlers arrived in the post today and I'm off to Worcester for some gaff track jumping tomorrow. Nice to put an awful flat season to bed.
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Unioniste not shy of gruelling conditions either and beat a bunch of almost identical hardy handicappers last year
albeit under a lot less weight.
 
Euronymous said:
Chasers and Hurdlers arrived in the post today and I'm off to Worcester for some gaff track jumping tomorrow. Nice to put an awful flat season to bed.
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Yes good to get back to the good stuff although I am looking forward to champions day
Cant wait for Cumberland chase day up here, Thats a belter of a meeting
Managed to earwig a tip off trainer Allan Mctaggart talking to a jockeys agent by the parade ring last year :lol:
 
Think it is DJ - 3m 1/2f Class 2 and IIRC an Intermediate Chase is for horses who've only won a novice chase (ie. one chase) so not convinced he'd be eligible (I could be wrong on this though).

Would the Peterborough not be a suitable starting point for Simonsig?

Martin
 
You're probably both right, though isn't Henderson thinking of stepping Simonsig up in trip anyway? Maybe I am playing all the right notes - just not necessarily in the right order? :D

Regardless, I can't see him running Simonsig under a stopping-weight in the PPGC. Fair balls to him if he does, though.
 
Irish Stamp said:
Think it is DJ - 3m 1/2f Class 2 and IIRC an Intermediate Chase is for horses who've only won a novice chase (ie. one chase) so not convinced he'd be eligible (I could be wrong on this though).

Would the Peterborough not be a suitable starting point for Simonsig?

Martin
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As far as I know the Sandown race is open to all second season chasers, last year's winner Bold Sir Brian had had four chase wins prior to winning it.
 
Grasshopper said:
You're probably both right, though isn't Henderson thinking of stepping Simonsig up in trip anyway? Maybe I am playing all the right notes - just not necessarily in the right order? :D

Regardless, I can't see him running Simonsig under a stopping-weight in the PPGC. Fair balls to him if he does, though.
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What evidence do you have that 'top weight' is such a bad thing?

Imho, it is no more the pyschological aspect people attach to being top weight as opposed to it being an actual hindrance.

If Simonsig was off 158 and 11 8 you might think he is the good thing of the season. Another 4 pounds shouldn't alter massively this view.
 
Hamm said:
If Simonsig was off 158 and 11 8 you might think he is the good thing of the season. Another 4 pounds shouldn't alter massively this view.
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correct..top weight negativity is illogical really

as you say..if he was off 158 and 11.08 and is deemed a very good thing then the assumption is an easy win..say 10+ lengths..another 4lbs would mean it now wins by 6+ lengths..no real difference..you still drag
 
Good to be talking about jumpers again..

Quite right that "top weight" is seen as stated above. As if by running a horse with 30stone on its back in the race and thus no longer being top weight would increase Simonsigs chances

But I would back against the possible (probable?) errors and inexperience and sense they will run him in that sandown race as suggested anyway
 
While essentially correct from a logical standpoint, there are surely other factors that need assessing when considering the impact of top weight.

Some horses have the frame to carry big weights, others don't (I am not classing Simonsig as the latter btw). Ground conditions can also make it harder to lump weight around, plus weight increased by lead is not going to be as easily distributed as a jockey's weight and not many jockeys weigh 11-12.

I remember Sirrell Griffiths after Norton's Coin had won the Gold Cup, being quoted as saying he wasn't surprised the horse had won as he must have felt like he was running loose with only 12st on his back after being used to lumping his big frame around each morning.
 
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Nothing wrong with 'top-weight' per se.....it's NJH's appetite to run him off top-weight against veterans that I'm questioning.
 
Digger said:
weight stops trains. (unless you are denman)
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i don't think anyone has suggested that weight doesn't affect horses..just the fact that a horse thats a "good thing" of 11.08..is near enough same good thing off 12.00..just a few lengths different
 
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Grasshopper said:
Nothing wrong with 'top-weight' per se.....it's NJH's appetite to run him off top-weight against veterans that I'm questioning.
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but isn't this what many people expect nowadays to prove you are an exceptional horse..i've read it here lots.."well i know its won 12 Grade 1's..but its never given weight in a handicap"

i personally don't understand the obsession with wanting a top horse to give a lot of weight away..if its a good weight carrier like Denman then it tells you very little..except ...its a good weight carrier
 
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