Panorama

I suppose I am stating the obvious here but something I found amazing in all of the coverage of this supposed corruption charges case is that no one (not that I have seen anyway) has ever mentioned how Rogers (and now this other owner too) are VERY intimidating and were possibly putting the stronghand on the jockeys. Going round to Fallon's gaff to sort him out did not seem too friendly to me! These guys are pretty scary. :eek:

I have to hand it to Fallon for having real balls of steel to defy their orders at all and go ahead and win on most of his mounts. Unlucky for them that he likes to llive dangerously!

You'd think that Rogers at least could have been done for harrassment, and surely at some point someone will decide to warn off those who bug the shite out of anyone distantly connected to a yard for tips. I'm a very very small owner and even I get asked for them all the time by people I hardly know. Like it was this easy to select winners for ferk sake! Makes me want to give out false ones to get rid of the jerks. I did say to one idiot who asked me if our horse was going to win why did he not ask the horse who might have a better idea than me - who knows, horses make fools of all of us. And I have had drunks giving me abuse after one did win because I did not tell them to back it.

I know harrassment does not excuse jockeys stopping a horse, or taking money from them, but I can see why some of them would just say anything to get the people off their backs.
 
I didn't find Miles Rodgers scary at all ~ imo the jockeys took him for a c##t who was too clueless to know that he was being played. The visit to Kieren Fallon would have been interesting simply inasmuch as you'd want to see the retribution; there is no doubt that Kieren is "connected" and the muppets who tried to do him over would most likely have had a rude awakening. I don't condone that in any way, but those that believe that Miles Rodgers is/was a major player need to read less Dick Francis ~ the man is obviously a Walter Mitty type who believes he is integral to the game when he is essentially not a player, but a mark.
 
I thought the programme was interesting enough and in general allowed viewers form their own conclusions. Nor was it sensationalist. The bit about Fallon's website was new information but was left to pop up unannounced near the end of the programme.

The final message, that efforts are being made to police the sport but it is a challenge, is hardly unfair or controversial.
 
Not a bad program in my opinion, much better than the first one.

Fallon has actually not come out to badly, however Fergal Lynch should have his license removed indefinitely on this evidence. He plain as day admits he stopped one and that should be condoned. He is a dirty cheating scumbag who needs removing from the sport for good.

If he gets another ride I certainly think the trainer and owner that puts him up need to take a long hard look. He admits on a phone call "that cost me a winner". Cheat, to be honest, the Fallon case may have not been good enough, but I think it's evidently clear that Lynch definitely has a case to answer and one that he should be warned off indefinitely on the evidence produced in this program.
 
I'm even more surprised that the CPS thought they had a case against Fallon after that. The police must have been sufficiently worried for his own safety to blow their cover, as they must have deduced that some kind retribution or threat was going to be made. If it were a case of a midnight drop of an envelope they'd have simply sat back and gathered the evidence rather than simply drive onto their back seat and let it be known that they were being followed, and yet they still proceeded to try and prosecute. It just seems inconsistant. It should have been clear that Fallon wasn't playing ball with the fixing of races for them to resort to this action, unless of course, they'd grown fixated on the idea that he was double dealing.

If anyone were in danger I'd have thought it was Rogers at this juncture, as any 'big shot' he's brought over from Spain isn't likely to be too impressed at being driven into a police surveilence operation.

I tend to agree with Rory in that Rogers came across as a bit of a fantasist, but possibly quite a dangerous one in so much as there's a chance he could believe his own publicity which would make him unpredictable, and possibly unaware of the full consequences of what he might be up to.

Not sure your odds on a fist fight are right though Rory (unless Fallon's in the business of answering his door armed to the teeth with attack dogs, and machine guns). He presents an image of a spikey, no nonesense, snarling type, but he is afterall over 40, can't weigh much more than 9st nor stand much taller than 5ft 6". Any half capable pub brawler would make pretty light work him, yet alone 3 or 4 blokes.
 
Warbler said:
I'm even more surprised that the CPS thought they had a case against Fallon after that. The police must have been sufficiently worried for his own safety to blow their cover, as they must have deduced that some kind retribution or threat was going to be made. If it were a case of a midnight drop of an envelope they'd have simply sat back and gathered the evidence rather than simply drive onto their back seat and let it be known that they were being followed, and yet they still proceeded to try and prosecute. It just seems inconsistant. It should have been clear that Fallon wasn't playing ball with the fixing of races for them to resort to this action, unless of course, they'd grown fixated on the idea that he was double dealing.

If anyone were in danger I'd have thought it was Rogers at this juncture, as any 'big shot' he's brought over from Spain isn't likely to be too impressed at being driven into a police surveilence operation.

I tend to agree with Rory in that Rogers came across as a bit of a fantasist, but possibly quite a dangerous one in so much as there's a chance he could believe his own publicity which would make him unpredictable, and possibly unaware of the full consequences of what he might be up to.

Not sure your odds on a fist fight are right though Rory (unless Fallon's in the business of answering his door armed to the teeth with attack dogs, and machine guns). He presents an image of a spikey, no nonesense, snarling type, but he is afterall over 40, can't weigh much more than 9st nor stand much taller than 5ft 6". Any half capable pub brawler would make pretty light work him, yet alone 3 or 4 blokes.
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I think Miles Rogers thinks he's in the same league as John McCraken, but he's nowhere near.
 
Lynch was given a right to reply
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Having a team of highly educated producers plan a programme for a year and then ambush a person in the course of their work with a deliberately incendiarly phrased question is not a 'right of reply.' In this or any other Panarama show.
 
an capall said:
Having a team of highly educated producers plan a programme for a year and then ambush a person in the course of their work with a deliberately incendiarly phrased question is not a 'right of reply.' In this or any other Panarama show.
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Was there not a statement from Lynch's lawyers following that Haydock interview?
 
Warbler said:
Not sure your odds on a fist fight are right though Rory (unless Fallon's in the business of answering his door armed to the teeth with attack dogs, and machine guns). He presents an image of a spikey, no nonesense, snarling type, but he is afterall over 40, can't weigh much more than 9st nor stand much taller than 5ft 6". Any half capable pub brawler would make pretty light work him, yet alone 3 or 4 blokes.
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I don't think Rory literally meant a fistfight, more that the retribution that would be visited on any guys who did Fallon over would give them a fright. As Rory says, I think you can assume that Fallon's connections are slightly more scary than any two bit players associated with Rodgers.
 
"As Rory says, I think you can assume that Fallon's connections are slightly more scary than any two bit players associated with Rodgers"

What is being suggested here?
 
Whatever you'd like it to suggest, Colin!

I'll quote Rory again for you, that is the part I am referring to.

there is no doubt that Kieren is "connected" and the muppets who tried to do him over would most likely have had a rude awakening
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to which I agree.
 
Reply to Aidan:

Because it was being run by the son, and "form expert", of a person who was winning rather too much laying Fallon mounts. I forget his name, another Miles Rodgers type.
 
Colin Phillips said:
"As Rory says, I think you can assume that Fallon's connections are slightly more scary than any two bit players associated with Rodgers"

What is being suggested here?
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No innuendo intended Colin ~ Mr Fallon has been public enemy number one for many years with the authorities because of his known association with "unsavoury types". That doesn't make him a bad man, but it does make him a bad man to mess around with......:p
 
Don't really know how to couch the next question in any way that could be answered without you having to kill me afterwards.....but are we talking I***H M**** here?
 
Having a team of highly educated producers plan a programme for a year and then ambush a person in the course of their work with a deliberately incendiarly phrased question is not a 'right of reply.' In this or any other Panarama show.
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What are they supposed to do?

Arrange a Hello type spread with nice pictures of his boiler and kids (if hes got one ) with nice questions delivered by Terry Wogan?





If it had been down to me the questioning would have been done in the style of that scene in Casino.

Now that would be good television...
 
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I don't give fcuk what they do. Just don't call that a right to reply - into a mike shoved in a face outside a weigh room. Thats just to make good TV. The reporter looked like he was going to ejeculate with happiness when yer man threw him out of the pub and the other fella kicked him. You need to divorce visual TV methods from rights.
 
The reporter looked like he was going to ejeculate with happiness when yer man threw him out of the pub and the other fella kicked him
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Apart from the embarassing way you described it, that was the point wasnt it?

The reactions told us quite a bit didnt it? Not least about the character of those involved.
 
an capall said:
I don't give fcuk what they do. Just don't call that a right to reply - into a mike shoved in a face outside a weigh room. Thats just to make good TV. The reporter looked like he was going to ejeculate with happiness when yer man threw him out of the pub and the other fella kicked him. You need to divorce visual TV methods from rights.
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Was there not a statement from Lynch's lawyers following that Haydock interview?
 
Yes. Thats my point. That was exercising a right to reply. Detached, considered, unemotional, not under duress and not an immediate response to a public ambush to titillate the BBC audience.
 
Galileo said:
What did they say was the reason Fallon's website shut down?
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They didn't - in fact they didn't say it had been shut down - they merely noted it had been set up with this guy Mark Bennett's company as a partner; but after what had been revealed about the father and hwo closely the family worked together in their racing ventures, that was damning enough!

I would imagine KF was advised [possibly as a result of the probings for this programme?] to sever his ties with the family if he wants to ride again
 
Shadow Leader said:
I don't think Rory literally meant a fistfight, more that the retribution that would be visited on any guys who did Fallon over would give them a fright. As Rory says, I think you can assume that Fallon's connections are slightly more scary than any two bit players associated with Rodgers.
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Fear not Shadz the thought crossed my mind.

It actually reminds me of Bernie Ecclestone being interviewed on five live after someone had bricked his car up and nicked it's tyres.

"We're pretty certain we know whose done it" he said
"So will you be giving the names to the police?" a slightly niave Peter Allen asked
"No. We'll sort it out our way".... in take of breath in the studio, punctuated by female co-presenter saying
"Sounds like someones go swimming witht he fishy's"

Now Bernie might not be the most intimidating man on a one on one, but he sure as hell is someone you wouldn't choose to get on the wrong side.
 
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