Paris Shootings

Agreed. It's like Islam has never heard of sticks-and-stones. For a religion that purportedly has around 1 Billion followers, Islam is somewhat lacking in confidence, it if can take such serious offence at something as simple as a cartoon.

Maybe it was at the back of the queue, when God was handing out the religion-winkles?? It would go some way towards explaining the extreme over-reaction to any criticism, and the general hatred of women.
 
Agreed. It's like Islam has never heard of sticks-and-stones. For a religion that purportedly has around 1 Billion followers, Islam is somewhat lacking in confidence, it if can take such serious offence at something as simple as a cartoon.

Maybe it was at the back of the queue, when God was handing out the religion-winkles?? It would go some way towards explaining the extreme over-reaction to any criticism, and the general hatred of women.

Yes . Its clearly a religion that, for all its claims, does not deliver contentment. if you are content and confident then you do not give am monkeys about whether your missus wears tight jeans, your neighbour gets banged up the gary glitter in brighton saunas and your kid wants to get out of your crappy religion and will bloody well say so

it really is a horrible mess isnt it? no mainstream religion comes within a million miles of this bigotry and control and dominance (thus its appeal to the far left??)

as an aside there are strains of islam which are relatively peaceful, such as surfism (which sings beach boys songs at the congregations apparently) but they are pretty fringe
 
So in other words you are silent on freedom of speech when it is concerning the jewish religion but manic when it comes to Islam?

if you fail to understand my point about enthicity and religious choice then frankly dont bother posting. and we know full well that his :"jokes" are about the jews themselves not the religion itself
 
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Consequently, I wasn't totally comfortable with Grey's idea which made it a black and white demarcation (that and the fact it so clearly aped George Bush).

Bloody hell, that's harsh! If I wanted to ape Bush I'd be advocating taking revenge, and taking it on some target that had no connection to the murders.
 
I understand it but for me they are more bound by a religion (they are as crazy as the islamists you mock so much, thinking they are the 'chosen people') than by a common ethnic thread.
 
I understand it but for me they are more bound by a religion (they are as crazy as the islamists you mock so much, thinking they are the 'chosen people') than by a common ethnic thread.

bang out of line. there are millions of secular jews and even amongst believers there are a number of different strains.Frankly strong believers in any religion believe they are "chosen" . so what?
 
You've clearly misunderstood my post. To call the Jewish people a 'race' is tenuous, and invites racial hatred. Most people I know/see that have anti-zionist/anti-jewish tendencies feel that way due to the religion, Israel and the Jewish belief that they are a race above and better than all others. They are bordering on mad.

I don't see any CoE or even in Ireland Catholics behaving in that way, so I believe you're mistaken.
 
You've clearly misunderstood my post. To call the Jewish people a 'race' is tenuous, and invites racial hatred. Most people I know/see that have anti-zionist/anti-jewish tendencies feel that way due to the religion, Israel and the Jewish belief that they are a race above and better than all others. They are bordering on mad.

I don't see any CoE or even in Ireland Catholics behaving in that way, so I believe you're mistaken.
That is absolute bollocks and is getting a little close to justification. I am not going there but if you think jew hatred started with israel and is exclusively down to that you are clueless
 
I never said it started from that; I was talking about contemporary people, so keep the clueless moniker for yourself.
 

It isn't "well said" at all......it's bull-sh*it.

No 'crime against humanity' was perpetrated in France. It was a series of straightforward murders, carried-out by hateful bas*tards.

Big Ben has his questions to answer, but the parallel drawn by the Turkish PM, between Netanyahu and the Paris jihadists is utterly wrong, and in politicising (possibly even marginally legitimising) the deaths in France, he is making himself look a right tit.
 
How is he legitimising it? He's doing completely the opposite by comparing it to the many murders committed by Israel under Netanyahu.
 
It isn't "well said" at all......it's bull-sh*it.

No 'crime against humanity' was perpetrated in France. It was a series of straightforward murders, carried-out by hateful bas*tards.

Big Ben has his questions to answer, but the parallel drawn by the Turkish PM, between Netanyahu and the Paris jihadists is utterly wrong, and in politicising (possibly even marginally legitimising) the deaths in France, he is making himself look a right tit.

Totally agree. Christ there really is any excuse given to bring the "chosen people" into every thread at every opportunity.

What should we make of that I wonder
 
Bloody hell, that's harsh! If I wanted to ape Bush I'd be advocating taking revenge, and taking it on some target that had no connection to the murders.
Not quite, I think you'd be doing this if you wanted to faithfully replicate George Bush. I think you probably aped him though by invoking the same language as he did, using the same rationale as he had in saying that you're either one side or the other, and that there wasn't really that much of an in between
 
Have to laugh at those that wishfully believe that jihadist attacks are purely down to "the Brits" and Americans evil actions overseas. We will leave aside Belgium for the moment (and not just today's events but the recent killing of Jewish children there) and consider which states have now been mentioned by aq and isis as targets

sweden

switzerland

getting a reality check at last, are we?

but this is a perfect summary

http://hurryupharry.org/2015/01/14/being-an-islamist/
 
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Clive, I've re-read this thread - who said that it's the fault of the Brits and Americans?
I believe that Clive is referring to Islamicists and Islamicist apologists in general -- not to something posted just on here.
And he's quite correct about that, too.
The default position of Islamicists and their apologists is always that their terrorist murders are a response to Western foreign policies. The islamic world is in thrall to the cult of victimhood.
 
I believe that Clive is referring to Islamicists and Islamicist apologists in general -- not to something posted just on here.
And he's quite correct about that, too.
The default position of Islamicists and their apologists is always that their terrorist murders are a response to Western foreign policies. The islamic world is in thrall to the cult of victimhood.

I believe that Clive's regular employment of the strawman fallacy has distorted many an argument on this board. I don't believe anybody who has challenged Clive in this thread can be described as an Islamist or an apologist but that doesn't stop him from drawing the comparison when it is irrelevant to the argument. Indeed, he has employed similar tactics in Israel-centric discussions by accusing all and sundry of anti-semitism which is as unfair, inaccurate and offensive as somebody describing him as C18 or NF.
 
How is he legitimising it? He's doing completely the opposite by comparing it to the many murders committed by Israel under Netanyahu.

I said "possibly even marginally legitimising it", Hamm.......and left it as an open question.

Regardless, there is no parallel between Gaza and Paris.

The incursion into Gaza was - right or wrong - in response to rocket-attacks on Israel by Hamas. We've discussed that topic to death on here before, my position is known, and I'm not going to repeat it here.

The motivation behind the Paris attacks is a combination of blind-hatred of the West and a bizarre form of religious nihilism. And as Clivex has subsequently pointed-out, there are countries who had no part in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, who now find themselves in the Jihadists cross-hairs, which further dilutes the argument that the Iraq War is at the root of the problem.

On a wider point, if something so trivial as a picture can upset the majority of the world's 1 Billion Muslims, then the game is a bogey. It exposes a massive and fundamental (excuse the pun) difference in the value systems of Muslims and - well - 'everyone else'.......or to put it another way, between those who want to live under the Laws of God, and those who want to live under the Laws of Man.

There is self-evidently no room for manoeuvre on the part of Muslims, and there is zero appetite to go back to the Middle Ages on the part of everyone else. It's for these reasons that I believe we are ultimately heading for a global conflict between Islam and 'everyone else'. The Jihadis will very-likely get their wish, because there is only so much that 'everyone else' will put up with, before they start seeing every Muslim as a potential threat......something we can see in embryonic form in parts of France already.
 
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srael and the Jewish belief that they are a race above and better than all others. They are bordering on mad.

and

discussions by accusing all and sundry of anti-semitism which is as unfair,


You couldnt make this up

and following on from this

So in other words you are silent on freedom of speech when it is concerning the jewish religion but manic when it comes to Islam?

if you fail to understand my point about enthicity and religious choice then frankly dont bother posting. and we know full well that his :"jokes" are about the jews themselves not the religion itself

is it also worth pointing out that hitler and various imams (both of whom would have certainly approved of the comments at the top of this post) do and most certainly did not make any distinction whatsover between observant jews and secular jews.
 
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I said "possibly even marginally legitimising it", Hamm.......and left it as an open question.

Regardless, there is no parallel between Gaza and Paris.

The incursion into Gaza was - right or wrong - in response to rocket-attacks on Israel by Hamas. We've discussed that topic to death on here before, my position is known, and I'm not going to repeat it here.

The motivation behind the Paris attacks is a combination of blind-hatred of the West and a bizarre form of religious nihilism. And as Clivex has subsequently pointed-out, there are countries who had no part in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, who now find themselves in the Jihadists cross-hairs, which further dilutes the argument that the Iraq War is at the root of the problem.

On a wider point, if something so trivial as a picture can upset the majority of the world's 1 Billion Muslims, then the game is a bogey. It exposes a massive and fundamental (excuse the pun) difference in the value systems of Muslims and - well - 'everyone else'.......or to put it another way, between those who want to live under the Laws of God, and those who want to live under the Laws of Man.

There is self-evidently no room for manoeuvre on the part of Muslims, and there is zero appetite to go back to the Middle Ages on the part of everyone else. It's for these reasons that I believe we are ultimately heading for a global conflict between Islam and 'everyone else'. The Jihadis will very-likely get their wish, because there is only so much that 'everyone else' will put up with, before they start seeing every Muslim as a potential threat......something we can see in embryonic form in parts of France already.

spot on

couple of additional points

Switzerland may well be mentioned as a target because of their ban on mosque building. And of course they should all die for that

As much as the left fantisise that this is a war againts the evil white west, i think it should never be forgotten that those suffering most from attacks are african christians and it hardly needs stating that every single other religion is seen as a target by the islamists. I think a poll across europe on attitudes towards muslims would produce startling figures but i would not be at all surprised if the greatest dislike would originate from other immigrant groups
 
Again, you've completely sidestepped my point that there has been no evidence of Islamic fundamentalism or Jihadist apologetics in this thread yet you're unnecessarily arguing against those stances.

I was referring to all and sundry as you level the charge against those who dare criticize Israeli policy without any evidence of anti-semitism. The notion that opposing Israeli policy automatically makes one a bigot is abhorrently offensive to the tenets of free speech.

So in other words you are silent on freedom of speech when it is concerning the jewish religion but manic when it comes to Islam?

Please elaborate.

I have made no defence of Islam whatsoever in this thread so describing something that hasn't existed as manic is another example of you creating something out of thin air.


if you fail to understand my point about enthicity and religious choice then frankly dont bother posting. and we know full well that his :"jokes" are about the jews themselves not the religion itself[/I]

I haven't disputed this anywhere nor have I made any indication that I have. To suggest that I don't bother posting *ahem - free speech - cough* because of a charge wholly created by yourself is a dangerous path to say the least.

is it also worth pointing out that hitler and various imams (both of whom would have certainly approved of the comments at the top of this post) do and most certainly did not make any distinction whatsover between observant jews and secular jews.

Is it really? As far as I'm aware, there are no Nazis nor are there any Fundamentalists in this thread. Although by that token, it could be worth pointing out that there have been several patently Islamophobic comments in this thread which completely ignore the notion that not all Muslims are fundamentalists.
 
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