Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2011

EC1 said:
the key bit is "trained for the Arc"

many great 3yo's have not been specifically trained for the Arc..others have been spoiled by running them at shorter trips and wasting their time..Motivator a good example..questionable if good enough even if specifically trained for Arc thouh i suppose

personally i have always believed that 3yo are favoured by the wfa scale..the clock also backs that up if you do enough comparisons.

a 3yo at the end of its 3yo season has an edge imo re wfa..thats only if the Arc isn't a token race added onto the end of the camapign

WF is a good example of how to ready a horse for the Arc..no dicking about with 10f..just specifically aimed at the race
Click to expand...

Are you talking about Workforce EC? He's ran over 10f more than 12f this season?!
 
Dry spell expected this week in the run up to the race... could affect the odds on a few of them (not least Nathaniel who may not run). On the other hand Longchamp has been known to heavily water in such circumstances, possibly creating false ground.
 
It'll be like an absolute road. Longchamp drains very well.

It will be given as Good ground and will ride significantly quicker, reckon we'll see some track records.

So You Think, Meandre and Snow Fairy are all shortening.
 
I see some nutter is in the letters page of the Racing Post today making the same point as Steve has on here about abolishing WFA in Championship races.
 
davidjohnson said:
I see some nutter is in the letters page of the Racing Post today making the same point as Steve has on here about abolishing WFA in Championship races.
Click to expand...

Letters page? Youre lucky if thats where you saw it. I work near Steve and saw him accosting various random members of the public about this on the way home the other day. As soon as one couple got past him, you could here them say to each othet '...but he doesnt look crazy..'. He had a sign around him, and a microphone for effect. I, like many others quickly crossed the road..
 
Last edited:
I can understand and indeed support a good review of the WFA system - but I do think 3yo's should get some weight, even if it is radically reduced.
 
Euronymous said:
I can understand and indeed support a good review of the WFA system - but I do think 3yo's should get some weight, even if it is radically reduced.
Click to expand...

The WFA probably does need a review, particularly so for this time of year. That’s not what I’m saying though. I’m saying that if you want to call an all-age race a "championship" you can’t have concessions for younger horses, they need to carry the same weight.

The WFA scale no doubt does have a place for non-championship races, where you want to give a concession to the younger generation, just don't make out it is anything other than this.

There are 3-y-o championship races (Derby, Guineas, St Leger), but no true all-age championship as there are concessions for age/sex.
 
the problem is Steve..even it were proven that tha wfa scale is a touch generous..and they reduced it..you would get many people totally disagreeing with the change and no longer running their 3yo's agaisnt older horses

that would seriously damage the all aged races ..even though it might be correct to change it..you wouldn't change people's mindset

its the mindset not the actual change that will be the problem.

the wfa scale has been around for a long time..people in racing will always cite that
 
Since 2000 there have been 73 3yo's run in the Arc

if you say that carrying the extra 8lbs slowed them down by approx 5 lengths

then you would have seen just one 3yo win the Arc..Sinndar

with those sorts of stats..would you run your 3yo in the race Steve?

1 from 73
 
Last edited:
EC1 said:
Since 2000 there have been 73 3yo's run in the Arc

if you say that carrying the extra 8lbs slowed them down by approx 5 lengths

then you would have seen just one 3yo win the Arc..Sinndar

with those sorts of stats..would you run your 3yo in the race Steve?

1 from 73
Click to expand...

I know you can use statistics to back up anything but that's a pretty impressive stat!
 
You can't just go from 8lbs WFA to no wfa at all - it's a pointless argument. I think Dalakhani's victory is a vote in favour of the current system. On level weights we'd have had to stomach some poor ass older animals winning the thing. Marienbard was surely enough for one decade.
 
EC1 said:
S
if you say that carrying the extra 8lbs slowed them down by approx 5 lengths
Click to expand...

To be fair, this is a big if itself. Weight to lengths isn't an exact science as horses weigh different amounts themselves.

I'm with Euro, a radically reduced amount rather than a total eradication of the allowance is more appropriate.

EC makes a good point though, a lot of the more old guard would stop running their horses in these types of races and put them away for the season or pack them off to stud, such is the backward nature of so many trainers!
 
Did take a walk on Betfair, could back at 12.50 earlier but back in to 6.00/8.00.

I hope he bloody is a NR, he's the one that worries me the most about my antepost portfolio!
 
Gamla Stan said:
I'm with Euro, a radically reduced amount rather than a total eradication of the allowance is more appropriate.
Click to expand...

But what is the mathematical justification for this? Timeform say a 3-y-o should receive 8lbs wfa at this time of year over 12f. John Whitley says the 3-y-o should get 6lbs from a 4-y-o and 7lbs from anything older than that. The official wfa figure is 8lbs. So they're all broadly similar. Although I disagree - strongly - with Steve M, the total abolition of the wfa allowance at least makes some sense from his standpoint but tinkering with it - splitting the difference or something like it - makes no sense at all.
 
Back
Top