Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2012

neither Nathaniel or Camelot have the speed to win an arc..encke would have a better chance than Camelot..he has more speed as he proved at Donny
 
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EC1 said:
neither Nathaniel or Camelot have the speed to win an arc..encke would have a better chance than Camelot..he has more speed as he proved at Donny
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The horse that won this season's 2,000 Guineas does have speed alright (we also saw it in the Derby). He was unable show it in Ireland due to heavy going and messed up in the Leger. Nevertheless he has the speed.
 
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Agree with you Steve, and if he'd won the Leger they'd be hailing him as equal to Frankel! One bad ride (IMO) and the horse is useless!
 
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jinnyj said:
Agree with you Steve, and if he'd won the Leger they'd be hailing him as equal to Frankel! One bad ride (IMO) and the horse is useless!
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This is what’s being missed jinny, in people falling over themselves to tell us how mediocre he is. The horse has real quality. He’s really very good. Whether he can win the Arc or not is another thing, but he is at the front of the queue of those that should give it a go.
 
SteveM said:
But this is immaterial. The point was that he had already run to a rating that would see him placed in any Arc.

For one reason or another horses drop out, but the stats stand that an RPR of 128 would place him in any Arc if he 1) ran to that; or 2) unless this was a better Arc than all the others.
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Steve, you can't call my point immaterial when it clearly was material in relation to your point.

Anyway, he'll have feck all to beat at this rate so all of our points will make no difference!
 
well he would have been the first triple crown winner in 42 years - I guess that might have counted for something?
 
edgt said:
S**T,B******s AND F**k!
I really thought Nathaniel was the one for this race.
Buick now free to ride Camelot as well.
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The supplementary stage is due later this week (I think it's Thursday) so Buick's availability isn't guaranteed. Gosden may decide to supplement Great Heavens.

...never a dull moment eh?
 
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Aragorn said:
Steve, you can't call my point immaterial when it clearly was material in relation to your point.

Anyway, he'll have feck all to beat at this rate so all of our points will make no difference!
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I still don't think you quite understand what I was getting at, but would agree it seems futile to continue with it.
 
unfortunatly the triple crown dosnt count for much these days so to say he would be comparable to frankel is wide of the mark allthough i suppose he might have been the last triple crown winner and frankel might be the last horse to go through a 15 race career (with most of his victories at group level) unbeaten so there is a similarity there i suppose
 
Joseph will ride SNA... let's hope he puts him in the race this time.

Can't confirm whether Dettori gets Camelot yet (they might be holding out for Buick).
 
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SNA has had far too many races this year. No chance.

I like Sea Moon at a price now if there is plenty of give. Good each way chance as he'll be quite fresh.

Main bet on Orfevre looks very solid now.
 
A great shame that the three best older contenders are out .

Will Dettori ride Camelot ? That must be the question - he is surely the best qualified for the job and as Sheikh Mo has given the ride on Masterstroke to Barzalona surely in honour he cannot stop him taking the ride if offered .
 
Ardross said:
A great shame that the three best older contenders are out .

Will Dettori ride Camelot ? That must be the question - he is surely the best qualified for the job and as Sheikh Mo has given the ride on Masterstroke to Barzalona surely in honour he cannot stop him taking the ride if offered .
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Not stop him, but he was none too pleased about Dettori taking the winning ride on Scorpion for Ballydoyle. I'd prefer Buick if he's available.
 
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Ardross said:
A great shame that the three best older contenders are out
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It is but Orfevre, SNA and Sea Moon are similarly rated depending where you look with those that dropped out and along with last season's runner-up and Reliable Man and Meandre, etc give a good representation from the older brigade. Only one 3yo filly (at the moment) and six 3yos in total.
 
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Just my view, but if Camelot does run, I'd love to see Keiren Fallon get the ride.
The more I look at the last 2 races, the more I'm convinced that JO'B asked for maximum effort while the horse was unbalanced, and that - more than anything - contributed to the lack of his usual finishing burst.
I know KF wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but there is still no finer exponent of gathering a horse together and waiting till he's completely poised, before delivering the coup de grace.
Might even consider him a solid bet - given the foregoing circumstance.
 
Great Heavens surely will be supplemented and if she is I'd think with all the weight allowance she'd have a cracking chance.
 
Kauto said:
Great Heavens surely will be supplemented and if she is I'd think with all the weight allowance she'd have a cracking chance.
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When I read they were thinking about supplementing her I thought she must have moved to Clive Britain. Then I remembered that Gosden did the same thing with Masked Marvel last year. I expect a similar result.
 
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