Punchestown British Trainers
- Thread starter harry
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I can't remember British trainers having much success when we used to go to Punchestown; a rather obscure lady trainer had a winner one year and I'm sure she was the only one, although Jonjo won with Rhinestone Cowboy another year. This seems to be gathering momentum, doesn't it.
Grasshopper
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They could win five times the prize-money by raiding Auteuil regularly.
Ted Walsh was talking about Auteuil on Friday night-said he was there once and didn't like it-said he would prefer Listowel.
I think his point was about anonymity-if you had a horse would you rather win a 1500 maiden at Wolverhampton on a Friday night or a 10000 maiden at some obscure French track on a Tuesday afternoon.
I suppose it's all about ego really .
I think his point was about anonymity-if you had a horse would you rather win a 1500 maiden at Wolverhampton on a Friday night or a 10000 maiden at some obscure French track on a Tuesday afternoon.
I suppose it's all about ego really .
It's being helped along by Cheltenham and Punchestown working together to promote each other's meetings, Moehat. Cheltenham members and people who have bought tickets all received leaflets last October allowing us to claim a day's free racing at the Punchestown festival or a day at one of the other premier Irish meetings, such as Galway and Listowel.
Besides, our lot had to go over and avenge the thrashing we got at Cheltenham this year!
I'm not the biggest fan of Ted or Ruby but I had to laugh the other night when he called Natal (I think) a complete bastard of a horse.
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
In the case of Natal it was pretty accurate.
Don't forget the most important reason for British trainers coming to Ireland.....the money. When the exchange rate was €1:£0.66 (back in the Inca days), it was the Irish who went to England. Now that the rate has moved to €1:£0.87, that €40k prize that was worth £25k three years ago is now worth over £35k. And even with the drop in prizemoney, it still makes sense.
Martin Pipe was one of the first trainers to launch raids on Punchestown. He brought over an entire chaser to win twice in the week, I think. Punchestown has also become more established now. I was chatting to David Pipe in the O&T bar on Tuesday and he seemed pleased with the meeting and was enjoying a few beverages. He was lucky later in the week and he might bring more back next year.
Martin Pipe was one of the first trainers to launch raids on Punchestown. He brought over an entire chaser to win twice in the week, I think. Punchestown has also become more established now. I was chatting to David Pipe in the O&T bar on Tuesday and he seemed pleased with the meeting and was enjoying a few beverages. He was lucky later in the week and he might bring more back next year.
Punchestown badly needs a couple of English winners every year to keep em coming back. This year was a roaring success in that regard. It's stating the obvious that the Festival quality is diluted by five days, but I thought Friday's was a cracking card. Hopefully the meeting comes earlier next season...
I think that might be Renee Robeson (Who the horse I have a share in is with) with Olney Lad. He ran in the same colours as Kikos as well. Had to be put down sadly after that win as well.
Grasshopper
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No idea. WP Mullins appears to be the only trainer in the British Isles with some nous, and has had several runners at the big May meetings over the years. Off the top of my head, the only English trainer I can recall having a runner there recently would be Emma Lavelle.
There's a case to be made which suggests that the Jousellin/Grande Steeplechase meetings come to early/late in the UK season, but I don't buy it. A horse like Pandorama would be perfect for both races, and win about four times as much in prize-money than he would if he book-ended his season in the Hennessy and Punchestown Gold Cup. He'd also be much more likely to get his ground in both French races.
It's a drum I've been beating for years now, but it still amazes me that connections don't insist their trainers consider these races as viable alternatives to the usual suspects. Any UK&I horse rated 155+ is going to have a great chance on the top French races, whereas - domestically - they are in no-mans-land off a similar mark, and generally prove very hard to win with. Why these top-level handicappers arren't despatched to farm the many extremely valuable French races against less exalted opposition is beyond me.
Grasshopper
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I couldn't recall if it was him or Tim Vaughan, but I think you're right Bobbyjo. 
Grassy, here's an example of the problem. I suggested to Colm that it might be worth considering KLimberlite for France. First port of call, what can he race in. Second question, what are the tracks like and the racing itself, thirdly what is the cost of travelling over. And then you could be coming home with your tail between your legs. There was a time when no European horses went to Melbourne for the cup. Until someone tested the waters, but it was not until Weld won it that people had a eureka moment and now there are a few European runners each year. France is the same. Willie can do it as he brings a few of them over and the owners want to go. It's also a party for them, just like Perth for Elliott owners. So until there is a clear benchmark of what you can bring to win, then there won't be a mass exodus. Stick to what you know.
That is an attitude for inbreds. Going to France is hardly comparable to going for the Melbourne Cup! It is 1 hour's journey versus a day. The tracks still have grass on them - I don't see the problem. costs not much more than going to the UK. Same with the tails between the legs comment. If Colm (and all other trainers) are seeing a problem with going to France, I suggest they need to be told to get over it and promptly.
didn't Tartak run there today or yesterday?
Grasshopper
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To be fair, Cantoris, Dave Parry has told me of the various complications before, and my answer to you is the same as the one I gave him; If it's so hard, how come Guillaume Macaire and Francois Doumen have been doing it in reverse for years?
France may not have a Jumps programme as proliferate as those in Britain and Ireland, but there are any amount of races open to runners from this side of the Channel, and it's disingenuous to suggest there aren't the races to run in.
Increased costs can be offset by the increased prize money available; E15,000 for a rudimentary hurdle or chase in the equivalent of a 0-125 event is fairly routine, which is roughly the equivalent of the wining prize money for an 'average' G3 over here.
I do realise that French Jumping doesn't have the same history or prestige as 'our' racing does, but it is far classier than many give it credit for; something perhaps evidenced by the success of horses like Kauto Star, Master Minded, Long Run et al ad nauseum, and the success of French-breds in general. Doubtless many horses do improve for the more polished and professional handling they get in these islands, but the core product is French, and snooty dismissal of French Jumping as inherently inferior is misguided, imo.
The pros of racing there would appear to massively outweigh the cons.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
All the major Festivals are gonna have to move in the future because springtime is warmer and summers are getting wetter. February is the quietest racing month of the year so moving Cheltenham to he middle part of that month, Aintree to where Chelts is now and Punchestown sometime in April would solve all sorts of problems.
Feb becomes a great racing month.
The National is run on better ground and in more suitable temperatures.
Punchestown comes before the Flat gets proper into gear.
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Narcotic Nora
Apprentice
I wouldn't overemphasise the point. Aside from that one year, there have usually been a decent enough number of British trained winners at Punchestown. Henderson, Hobbs, O'Neill, Nicholls have all done reasonably well and the 4Y0 hurdle, Stayers and a few more have been happy hunting grounds for GB trained horses. This year might have had a few more and hopefully that encourages more to come as it definitely makes it more interesting. It's particularly good to see the better horses. I hope Nicholls isn't put off by the demise of Denman and Kauto there and it was probably the late timing this year that led to him having a small team.
As for the obscure lady trainer, wasn't that Renee Robeson? I remember her being interviewed by Robert Hall and I think she's his Godmother or great aunt or something like that.
Grassy: French steeplechasing is not that far behind the British variety. It began in 1829 when a Monsieur de Normandie exported the true chase (with the splendid variety of obstacles still tackled at courses like Auteuil) to France, having hunted with the Leicestershire in England and enjoyed the chasing scene here. It didn't take long for British and Irish jockeys to climb aboard the professional riding bandwagon as the French riders were almost all drawn from the amateurs of the aristocracy and military - Jem Mason, Tom Olliver, the McDonagh brothers. British trainers began taking up residence in France from 1860, with Harry Lamplugh from Yorkshire establishing himself, and the formalisation of chasing was set down by the formation of the Societe des Steeplechases in 1863.
There's a very fine heritage behind French steeplechasing and we all know by now that their equine product easily equals the best of the Irish, and considerably more than most of the British-breds at the top levels. Hence Nicholls and King's yards being around 30-40% French-bred at any given time.
Anyone interested in learning more about the subject can go to http://www.tbheritage.com, search the lists for TurfHallmarks/racecharts/Steeplechases/FrenchChasing.html and there are mentions of interesting published histories on it.
There's a very fine heritage behind French steeplechasing and we all know by now that their equine product easily equals the best of the Irish, and considerably more than most of the British-breds at the top levels. Hence Nicholls and King's yards being around 30-40% French-bred at any given time.
Anyone interested in learning more about the subject can go to http://www.tbheritage.com, search the lists for TurfHallmarks/racecharts/Steeplechases/FrenchChasing.html and there are mentions of interesting published histories on it.
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The three years that we went to Pumchestown have sort of morphed into each other; we saw Moscow Flyers last race, and heard Brave Inca win on the radio as we were sitting in the car looking out to sea in Connemara. It was on the radio that we heard of this lady trainer winning.