Punchestown Day 2

granger

granger

Senior Jockey
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Nov 3, 2005
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King Kauto is over. Be brilliant to see him get another day out. Nacarat stands out as the principal danger to me.

Another weak looking novice hurdle. Where are all these good Irish young hurdlers gone?

Waaheb is short enough in one of the bumpers,

Osana gets in with a nice weight in the handicap chase, interests me alot
 
Hamm said:
Denman, Aintree?
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Denman has been a spectacular failure any time he has run after the festival.I think essentially he is a Hennessy and Gold Cup horse.
There is some muck in the race-and if Ruby can get him into a nice rhytym early on I can't see him beaten.
 
LUKE said:
Someone tell me why I shouldn't have a lot of money on Kauto.
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a number of reasons imo

his GC run is overrated imo
he's not anywhere near the horse he was
he has only run once after Cheltenham before and ran below form, his normal season is to finish at Cheltenham
I would rather back Kempes
 
LUKE said:
Denman has been a spectacular failure any time he has run after the festival.I think essentially he is a Hennessy and Gold Cup horse.
There is some muck in the race-and if Ruby can get him into a nice rhytym early on I can't see him beaten.
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i didn't see your post...made the same point about post Cheltenham for KS
 
Kempes won a poor enough Grade 1 novice chase at the meeting last year.in 2009 he was 2nd to Hurricane Fly finishing ahead of Grade 1 winners Riverside Theatre and Go Native -not bad form but I am not convinced about him as a 3 mile chaser.
When Kauto ran at Aintree he ran respectably and unlike Denman he raised a gallop.I am convinced it is his race to lose but if I am having a wedge on I am prepared to listen to the case against KS.
 
LUKE said:
Kempes won a poor enough Grade 1 novice chase at the meeting last year.in 2009 he was 2nd to Hurricane Fly finishing ahead of Grade 1 winners Riverside Theatre and Go Native -not bad form but I am not convinced about him as a 3 mile chaser.
When Kauto ran at Aintree he ran respectably and unlike Denman he raised a gallop.I am convinced it is his race to lose but if I am having a wedge on I am prepared to listen to the case against KS.
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After watching the GC i was talking to bloke at work and I said then that if they ran Denman and or KS again this season I would lay both

I just think KS has lost what separated him from horses like those he faces tomorrow Luke..obviously i might be totally wrong but that GC was a little bit sad to watch in certain respects..great spectacle on the day..but then I thought how sad that those two warriors couldn't produce what they did a while ago.. I think if IC had produced his best on GC day he would have given LR a race and left D and KS even further behind.

Obviously these are just my musings over the GC but thats how I view that race now in hindsight..great at the time..bit of sadness. I'm not knocking either horse by the way..just don't think either are short price animals these days.
 
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EC1 said:
I just think KS has lost what separated him from horses like those he faces tomorrow Luke..obviously i might be totally wrong but that GC was a little bit sad to watch in certain respects..great spectacle on the day..but then I thought how sad that those two warriors couldn't produce what they did a while ago.. I think if IC had produced his best on GC day he would have given LR a race and left D and KS even further behind.
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It was uplifting, not sad. Denman would have won a fair few renewals with the run he put in and for me I think they made too much use of Kauto. If he'd been held up he wouldn't have been as legless up the hill.
As for IC, the fact he couldn't produce his best on the day is one reason why you can't mention him in the same breath as the other two.
 
Euronymous said:
It was uplifting, not sad. Denman would have won a fair few renewals with the run he put in and for me I think they made too much use of Kauto. If he'd been held up he wouldn't have been as legless up the hill.
As for IC, the fact he couldn't produce his best on the day is one reason why you can't mention him in the same breath as the other two.
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well i did find it a bit sad post race..i didn't mean it was sad..just how i felt

IC went lame..how could he show his best?..IC had already beaten D and KS when they were better horses than when LR beat them

imo..IC would have been pushing LR harder than D or KS after the last

i don't see how you can just ignore how decent IC was becasue he ran badly when not 100%
 
Can't watch ATR live so going to a bookies to watch Kautos race. Feeling very nervous about it.
 
EC1 said:
IC went lame..how could he show his best?..IC had already beaten D and KS when they were better horses than when LR beat them

imo..IC would have been pushing LR harder than D or KS after the last

i don't see how you can just ignore how decent IC was becasue he ran badly when not 100%
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He went lame because he made a mistake at the fourth last. It was a poor jump when the race was hotting up that caused it. It's also very debatable that Denman was better in 2010 than he was in 2011.
 
granger said:
Who wins either bumper Martin and OTB?
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Not to be eating Martin's lunch but was seriously taken with Caelaneoin's debut run and subsequent win. Being a King's Theatre he should love the ground and him being with an unfashionable trainer is the only reason he is 16/1. JP and Weld seem wrong together - Waheeb looks decent though and has slaughtered 3 decent fields and gets the WFA allowance. At the prices Caolaneoin EW.

The second bumper could fall to Alfred James. Came to Punchestown in February with a lofty reputation but didn't seem to act on the ground. I'd give him another chance here at around 9/2. I would imagine they will pile into Kiely's yoke but how many bumper winners does Derek O'Connor ride??

Would and will wait for Martin's considerations before placing any bets.
 
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Faha has the form in the book for the second bumper - sadly though the price will reflect his chance.

Away at Cheltenham tomorrow so unlikely to see much of Punchestown - that said I wouldn't want to be taking short prices in either of the bumpers and last I checked they were asking 6/4 Waaheb and River Slaney, Streets Of Newyork and Black Zorro didn't exactly advertise the form of his two wins in their respective bumpers today whilst Steps To Freedom and Aupcharlie both bring solid Graded bumper form to the table.

I know he's a big price but I'm far from convinced that Starling Force should be 50/1, he was beaten less than a length by Aupcharlie on his second start at Naas before going on to Bumper success himself in a weak enough afair at Gowran in March. He's five times the price of Aupcharlie and also has form that ties in with Go All The Way (best priced 12/1). I'm far from familiar with his trainer Noel Kennedy but Starling Force appears to be his only horse so he can either train a bit or the horse is getting him out of jail on the track. It's always dangerous to take one line of form too literally but at 50/1 I don't mind paying to find out how literally it should be taken.
 
Kauto looked a million dollars at Cheltenham and is worth backing if turning out like that again.
 
I agree with the reservations about Waaheb. Caolaneoin is a serious candidate and another I like is Letter Of Credit. The race he won at Gowran was a decent winners' bumper (there are few enough of these races in Ireland, and they deserve to be at least Listed class). He is high up in the ratings and is entitled to be. His form is all on soft and heavy ground but his pedigree says, and so does his trainer, that he will improve on better ground. The Spotlight comment in the Racing Post says the opposite, which might explain his price of 25/1.
 
The Powers special today is money back of 2nd to sp fav-a good concession for anyone against fav in gold cup or bumper.
 
Just realised I get my quel esprit money back from yesterday!! A major bit of luck, considering it was the first bet I had in powers in weeks, had been punting online recently so that's a big change in fortunes. Double today on kuato and nicholls other hurdler for Alex.
 
Two others that I think are over-priced today - Lambro at 10/1 in the 3 mile hurdle - he almost tripped up six out the last day and still won. I know there was a complete pace collapse and it fell into his hands but at that price he is a sound ew punt. Ruby rides Bishopsfurze which probably accounts for a portion of the price differential but Lambro has done very little wrong and would be about a 6/1 shot in my book.

I am going against myself in the Champion Bumper but LoveTheHigherLaw at 12's and 14's with the money back offer in Powers is worth a saver. They reckon he didnt handle the ground when 2nd to Martin's lovechild Mount Benbulben at Limerick and has been crying out for a bit of good ground. Completely overpriced IMO. The fav is there to be beaten and with his high knee action may not be wild about the good ground. I'd almost lay him at 5/4. Kauto is definitely a better 5/4 shot than Waheeb.
 
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