Racecourse Entry Fee

It will only be a number of years after this collective drop in entry fees from racecourses before they start increasing again, business is driven through greed so the longevity is pretty bleek.
 
Business is driven by profit margins, IS - if you aren't yet in gainful employment, you'll clearly have no understanding of this - unless you're another on the anti-capitalist bandwagon and consider all profit to equate to greed. In which case, brothers and sisters, get your forks and spades, and let's head for Collective No. 276-B, Zone E. One thing that you won't enjoy in a non-business world will be racing, since ownership is theft, yadda-yadda, and therefore the only horses you'll be watching will be those in front of you, pulling your communal plough.

There isn't a 'collective drop in entry fees' at all. Entry fees have risen every year at every course (bar Towcester) and, apart from the occasional special offer here and there, as long as employees demand rises in pay every year, they'll continue to do so.

Racing is a commercial business, not a charity, and none of its suppliers - like the electricity companies, the water boards, the phone companies, the insurers which underwrite its massive corporate insurances, etc., are dropping their prices, are they? No, of course they're not. So let's stop knocking racing as if it should be plying its wares for free. Nobody forces anyone to go racing, any more than they force them to eat at a restaurant instead of cooking at home, or going to the theatre. It's a luxury activity when all is said and done, not a necessity of everyday life like food and clean water. Every racecourse has huge bills to pay: loads of salaries, insurances, utilities, maintenance, buying and replacement of equipment/furnishings, food and drink suppliers, stable bedding, advertising, performing artistes and other raceday amusements - there's an endless list of suppliers, none of whom has reduced their prices one iota, and you're crabbing because they have to raise entry fees? I hope you're not thinking of applying for a job where words like 'budgetary goals' are used, because you'll probably feel a little faint.
 
Racecourse Economics

All well and good, Jon, but some of those suppliers are themselves a luxury. Do racecourses NEED to pay the promoters of acts like Boyzone, the Pussycat Dolls and Simply Red the money they clearly have to in order to bring these artists to the racecourses ?

In order to cover these costs, Epsom have to ask £30 for the Grandstand and Sandown and Newmarket likewise vastly increase their admission costs. Yes, they will get fans of the performers who will enjoy 90 minutes or so in the open air (or thunderstorm as it was last Thursday) but add the costs of food and drink and it may well be that many of those attending will be deterred by the subordinate costs.

As for people like me who are interested in the racing rather than the music, we are discouraged from attending by the prices aimed at encouraging the music fans.

Racecourses will argue the end justifies the means as the evening meetings with music are doubtless going to be successful BUT anecdotal evidence suggests Epsom had a poor evening in terms of attendance and I just wonder how long courses can keep "upping the ante" in terms of the quality of the performers on offer.
 
Stodge - I don't understand what it is you're asking in your second sentence. You seem to be asking if racecourses need to pay the performers in order to bring them to the courses? Er, well, yes, the performers demand to be paid and just won't perform for free... that's how they make their living. Otherwise, I don't know what you mean.

Of course, any event which is held and buys the services of some sort of entertainment needs to factor in the cost of that entertainment. 'Music evenings' or whatever you want to call them bring in more people on Saturday evening meetings at Lingfield, for example, than meetings without them. The crowd is much younger than non-music meetings and arrives ready to party, judging by the queues at all of the food and especially drink outlets. The course put out loads more tables and chairs for al fresco drinking, and every one of them was filled with revelling racegoers. Saturday nights are also pretty big for stag and hen parties, so with the music added in, these are far more attractive to the younger crowd than racing which just switches off at 5.30 and sends them elsewhere. The music starts up at around 9.00 pm-ish, goes on for an hour, and the bars remain open for drinking-up for a half to one hour after that - so, instead of being chucked off the racecourse one hour after the last, the parties stay on and make a full night of it. 11 pm is the usual goodbye time.

There didn't appear to me to be any worries over the food and drink, and I wouldn't say that the prices at Lingfield are that high. Certainly a really huge, delicious Angus beefburger at around £4.50 with all the trimmings isn't high when you consider the cost of it being served to you in a cafe - it isn't McDonald's sized, it's a monster, really a meal in itself. The cost of drink depends on what you drink and how much you want to gurgle - most of 'the lads' were on lagers, and the girls on Pimm's or white wine.

As I've written elsewhere, you get discounts for online and party bookings, so these folks will have no doubt received a decent discount off their entry fee. They probably share a race card between four or five of them, because they're mostly going to pick horses on the basis of knowing maybe one jockey's name, pretty silks, or cute names. They don't find lobbing out £40 or £50 for several hours of entertainment that much, because if they go clubbing, they're already going to go way past that. They're used to forking out for club entry fees, paying for taxis, mojitos at £4-5 a time (perhaps up to 10 in a night's steady chugging), some sort of nosh - easily a fiver, probably a tenner, and that's without blinking an eye. And that could well be for just a DJ, not a live act, and certainly not with the fun of 6 live horse races beforehand.

Overall, there's no reason to suspect that fun Saturday evenings won't continue to appeal to younger people who may have little understanding of racing, but who are 'well up' for several hours in a less stale environment than their local club. If they also manage to win some dosh with the ponies, then they're well chuffed and will def be back.

You say you're discouraged from attending because of the price inc. for the music. Look, are you seriously saying to me that you'd really attend that many Saturday night race meetings? Most regular racegoers join as Annual Members and sod off after the last, muttering into their beards about not wanting to hear all that racket. They've had their 6 races, and they're off home - although for many, it's way past their cocoa time anyway!

If you have the chance, as Lingfield has, to pretty much double your gate and treble your food/drink income in one night, you're going to go for it, aren't you? It's commercial sense. Nobody gets rich on the one-off income from AMs and their parsimonious raceday spending. As for the non-AM, fairly regular racegoer - they're the least likely to haul out for an evening meeting. And, as so many people like to opine, if there's too much racing, well, then, it's one good reason to do yourself a favour and limit the amount of times you feel you have to turn out!
 
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Stodge, I'd have thought that the attendance levels at Epsom were due to the weather; it was the smallest Thursday night crowd so far this season. A lot of the stable lads and locals from Epsom like to turn up to these Thursday nights much as they do in Newmarket so they are usually well attended.
 
Galways prices are pretty desperate....acting as if their price "freeze" is a good thing...

€20 for Monday,Saturday and Sunday, €25 for Tuesday and Friday and €30 for Wednesday and Thursday.
 
I have to say those prices have put me off because at the end of the day the actual quality of the racing at that meet isn't that good really is it???

I'm intending on coming over for the big meet at Down Royal in November and according to their website it is £15 for the James Nicholson Chase Day and £10 for the Friday.

I can't think of any racecourse in the UK with admission that low (apart from Towcester of course).

It was £19 at Beverley Monday night which is too much for bog standard racing.

Back to Down Royal and they are also doing a special deal on their next two meets with entrance,a pint of Guinness (or Harp) a £5 betting voucher,a hot roll and a racecard voucher for £15.
 
Any meeting with less than a listed or group 3 should not be allowed to charge more than a tenner max. Lets face it in terms of product it is churning out a blue stripe label with potential market leaders making an appearance and on display in the same aisle/shelf.
 
As Shadz says, weather has a huge impact on turn-out - not for the tip-top meetings, because people have paid second mortgages to go and by God, they'll go short of a hurricane or earthquake! But if it's pelting down and you've only spent £15, you know you'll be drenched if you go to the parade ring, drenched if you scoot out to the stands, and drenched on your walk in and out, and that all the bars will be crammed full of bawling punters taking shelter and smelling like wet dogs - so it's far nicer to stay home and watch it on tv!

Toobe - I'm glad you're not trying to keep a racecourse going, if that's your philosophy! You'd be a housing estate inside three years! Sorry, but the facts are that nothing costs less right now - staff cost the same, and expect some sort of rise each year or they'll bugger off; bedding for the stable block isn't cheaper than 2007 because of the financial crash; utilities such as heat, light, water (and a helluva lot of water is used) haven't discounted heavily because of the credit crunch - in other words, think of a thing, any thing, that you might need to run a racecourse, from computers to FAX paper to replacing broken furniture, paying cleaners, keeping up insurances, ensuring that every aspect of your estate is managed to meet Health & Safety requirements - and it doesn't matter whether you're running mostly Class 5s and 6s or regularly have Listed and higher races - the costs are just the same.

It's like owning a racehorse: your trainer doesn't charge you any less for your Class 6 animal than s/he does for your Derby winner. Your vet doesn't say, "Aaahhh... I see you've got an untried 2 y.o. so I'll only charge you £700 instead of the £1,500 I gouge out of the owners of the Listed nags", does he? No, of course not! Cost is cost is cost - and you can't possibly imagine, with what I assume is your experience in working in racing, that the public at large cares if it's watching an all-fillies' Listed or a Class 4. Day to day, it just wants to see racing and have some fun. It really doesn't care if you're offering polyester instead of silk.
 
Stodge - I'm afraid your theory about people not wanting to pay more for racing + music looks like a busted flush! We were told at today's briefing at Lingfield that this coming Saturday's evening meeting with 'Battle of the Divas' playing after the last race has already got 7,000 pre-paid sales logged! This is probably the best gate Lingfield's had for a race meeting inside 10 years. All of the hospitality is booked chokker-block and the course is nearing its safety capacity (a third of it's currently railed off while the hotel is being built). Bring it on!
 
Sandown was sold out tonight - I believe that is an 18,000 capacity. All for that miserable ginger tosser Mick Hucknall, of all people!
 
I am unsure as to where you are coming from Krizon, are you saying that the public don't know the difference between low end racing and the classics? Or that racecourses, lets say for example lingfield on a monday night pull out the same stops and have the same staffing levels etc as, (and to go to the other end of the market) Royal Ascot. I'd err on the side of people don't go to the regular meetings because the differences are so obvious when comparing value for money. Racecourses have to do more to promote gate attendence due to computor technology etc.
 
Stodge - I'm afraid your theory about people not wanting to pay more for racing + music looks like a busted flush! We were told at today's briefing at Lingfield that this coming Saturday's evening meeting with 'Battle of the Divas' playing after the last race has already got 7,000 pre-paid sales logged! This is probably the best gate Lingfield's had for a race meeting inside 10 years. All of the hospitality is booked chokker-block and the course is nearing its safety capacity (a third of it's currently railed off while the hotel is being built). Bring it on!

Amazing! are you going? I was thinking of going Ascot but 7,000 at Lingfield sounds better, one of the most comforting and loving racecourse in this country by miles!
 
Pack it in, Phillips! What are you implying?

No, IS - I'm a fat, grey-haired old lump of 64, gone in wind and limb, but fortunately still capable of doing a little work now and then, provided I'm allowed to sit down frequently and not asked difficult questions. I will be going - in fact I will be working there! And I think that after racing, if I haven't had too taxing an afternoon, and been able to have at least a couple of cuppas, why, I might even stay behind and watch the entertainment. Can we use your lovely description of Lingfield in promotional material? I've never heard of a course called comforting before, let alone loving, but I know they'll be delighted on either score!

Toobe, what I'm saying is that the vast bulk of the customer base at racecourses don't give a damn as to what the fare is on offer. They know the Derby, they know the Grand National. If they're local, they'll know the St. Leger and the Oaks, and they know that if they go to those meetings they'll pay through the nose for the privilege of seeing 'top races'. Otherwise, believe me, they just want escapism and fun - they really don't care if it's a field of 12 Class 6 nags lining up or a field of 6 Listed. Try talking to Mr and Mrs Bloggs from Bognor Regis some time about Pattern racing and see how far you get!

Most people in the betting or horse-based levels in the industry don't get to see much, if anything, of the people who go to make up the millions of racegoers who are the necessity to the sport. From the oik who yells in glee when an opposing horse falls, to the young people who are just out for a day's boozing, bus or coach ride home, to the high-priced corporates out to pose a bit and try to cop off with the manager's secretary - none of these people could give a damn about the ratings and classifications. They want to find a winner or two, and if that means they pick one based on Auntie Mabel's poodle's name, then so be it. I had a totally non-racing friend win the placepot at Mum's memorial party at Brighton: she won £940 based purely on 'lucky numbers' and one of Mystic Meg's horses, because she's a strong believer in psychics! Other chums there who actually work, like me, at courses, and several who bet every meeting several times, were sick as parrots! So much for form, ratings, trainer's percentages - piffle! Did anybody once quibble about the quality of the horses? Not once - a win's a win, whether it's on Dobbin, Denman, or Sea the Stars!
 
I don't disagree that the regular punter doesn't give a hoot about class of race, what I believed was the disussion was regarding the class of meeting and in respect of value for money regarding entrance fee charged.
 
Most of the people I know at work go for the socialising and only take an interest in a race if Ruby or AP are riding - and then only because they fancy them.

Only about 2 of us are actually interested in the racing for itself.
 
I didn't think the entry fee covered stabling and thought that sort of thing was covered by the trainer either via or on top of entry fees
 
I should have said connections to the horse who pay/charge the costs via entry administration. As I am not a trainers secretary so the finer details are not something I have ever got into but, I thought it was part of their job description to take care of entry of horses etc. on behalf of the owner. Of course I am aware that the owner covers the cost and stabling etc.
 
But the racecourse still has to pay the bedding supplier, Toobe, and they have to order up huge amounts of shavings and shredded paper for whoever requires what. They also have to provide and pay for overnight security and a stable manager, plus hundreds of gallons of water per meeting, sloshed over hot horses, wash-down areas, as well as bucketsful for drinking - their water bills are huge. They also pay a yard man to muck out, make up fresh bedding, and liaise with trainers/THLs over any special needs the horse has.

Race entry fees are paid by owners to the BHA c/o Weatherbys - not direct to the course. After a race, the owner gets a bill for the race entry, the jockey's fee, and the BHA's admin fee - if it's a first run or new ownership, there's also the registration of ownership and colours to pay for, too - all on top of training fees.

The trainer plans the races for the horses and if it's a smallish yard, makes the entries him/herself. Having a secretary is an unaffordable luxury for a lot of trainers - but, if they're very lucky like Gary Moore, they'll have an attractive wife who'll ride work, check on the horses, cook breakfast, talk to owners, do the accounts, make the race entries, arrange badges for owners, drive the jockeys to their rides, run the house, and still have time to talk to them in the evening!

There are approximately - and this is for smaller courses like Lingfield, Plumpton and Fontwell Park and their ilk - around 50 raceday staff needed to perform a wide variety of jobs, such as horsewalk safety, turnstile operations, dope catcher, dope witness, parade ring marshall, declarations clerk, weighing-room security inside/outside doors, jockeys' door security, the stables staff as mentioned, miscellaneous door security (owners' bar, for example), stewards' assistant, winning connections' liaison (champagne!), cleaners, litter-pickers, car park attendants, road crossing attendants (Brighton - where two roads actually cross the course), course crossing attendants (where internal traffic crosses the course), gate attendants (where ambulances only may come in and out), saddle cloths and armbands (external use), jockeys' saddle cloths, starter's driver, starter's assistant, starter's signaller, vet's driver, doctor's driver, the divoters and, at the NH courses, the jumps attendants.

Then there are often caterers who are paid by courses who do some or all of their own catering - Lingfield now does its own, and doesn't have any outside franchises or contract caterers, which Plumpton does. Add in the salaries of chefs, kitchen prep staff, porters, dishwashers, bar staff and table serving staff, plus all the food and drink, and linen services from outside suppliers.

The big hitters in terms of wages paid on racedays are the vets and doctors, who may charge up to £700 a pop for their services. There's the ambulance service and their paramedics to pay for, and then people like the announcer, the starter, the commentator (race caller), and the auctioneer for the Seller...

... not to mention the bill for the work of the stewards, the judge, the Clerk of the Scales, the weighing-room security officer...

... and then there's the permanent staff in the offices! The General Manager, the accountants, the commercial manager, sales and marketing, promotions and advertising, Health & Safety, personnel ('human resources'), the Clerk of the Course, the Head Groundsman, the handyman, the receptionist, the PA to the GM and the Clerk, the...

... well, now you get an idea of who (and this is only a basic list of ordinary courses with ordinary meetings) has to be paid, and thus, perhaps, a little idea of why racing for free or a fiver is a pipe-dream!

And I haven't even started on costs for the maintenance schedules of the estate and the buildings, equipment and vehicles, the massive Public Liability Insurance costs, the office stationery, the phone bills, advertising....
 
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