Road to the Champion Hurdle 2023

[LUKE]

Sizing Europe's Irish Champion win was one I could not believe with my eyes.
Pity he never repeated it over hurdles though more than made up for it over fences.
Faugheen's win in the same ball park Grassy for sure.

I have tried so many times to find SE's Irish Champion Hurdle on YouTube -an unreal performance.

 

[Tanlic]

Epatante only beat Oh So Sleepy (kept on) 4 Lengths in the champion Hurdle and Tommys Oscar (eased) 20 Lengths. Yesterday they ran through to the line!

You could argue that this is OH So Sleepy's Champion hurdle and that he is tuned to the minute....

Constitution Hill was eased from the second last, more so over the last to the line...Epatante was pushed all the way to the line to hold off OSS. I measured the drop in pace over the last to approx 4 lengths, giving another 2 for the penultimate easing; he was good for an 18-length hiding on the bridle.

Epatante was 0.83 above standard yesterday on Gd/soft ground. OSS hit standard. With the mares allowance, these two were given 160 RPR's for their dead heat last year, on identical ground, that was run 2.4 seconds below standard and substantiated by the proximity of a very fit 158-rated Sceau Royal. I have no reason to believe that their performances were near to their best yesterday and why wouldn't they be, with prize money, risk of injury, 3 months to Cheltenham and future insight to be gleaned from not being so...

They didn't have a pacemaker last year that could give them the tow that CH gave them yesterday, with a faster middle pace, their times would/could have been just as good!

Epatante scraped over the line just behind Jonbon (149) on a video comparison in March. Jonbon (kept up to his work) was 22 lengths behind the eased-down CH. Epatante was given 157, Honeysuckle 159, CH was given 177. He hit slightly over the 180 in my calculation.
A much more mature individual, making his own pace; slaughtered two tuned-up 160 capable performers on the bridle by an eased-down 12 Length's, so that makes it impossible to conclude a 180 yesterday but surely he has it in the locker!!!

THe ground was far from identical. Check the times of each race against this year against last year.
The ground was much faster this year. What that means is anyone guess but I would advise you that comparing times should only be done on the same day over the same trip or you will end up with useless information.

 

[barjon]

The times of the races this year against standard were: slow 12.81 seconds, slow 11.23, slow 9.03, slow 25.05, fast 2.83, slow 5.74, slow 6.24.

Despite the differences in type and distance I think it’s fair to conclude that this confirms the visual impression that Constitution Hill wasn’t hanging about and ran a true race.

 

[reet hard]

Says it all, BJ.
RP have the timed ground as good, with a T/S of 169, which is higher than his (strongly run) Supreme win, and had to make his own pace to achieve it.
As things stand, his future is near boundless.

 

[barjon]

Sure, reet, it might all go belly-up, but you’d have to be a dyed in the wool pessimist to think so. The only problem is that you’re never going to make much money from him and I’m pretty sure he’s not going to appear in the Longshot Thread

 

[EC21]

I hope Honeysuckle comes back as good as ever this season but I fear she won’t. State Man could turn out to be the best in Ireland this time round.

And Constitution Hill fans need to be careful what they wish for today. As EC21 and others have often pointed out, no horse has ever won both the Fighting Fifth and the Champion Hurdle in the same season. Just can’t be done, so winning today would ruin his chances for March :blink:

I never said that though, because it has been done. I will be back though quoting this comment for you when CH does not win the Champion though, I'll throw in Tanlic's comment too. You guys must be very confident about CH, which is very fair right now, I'm impressed with him. I assume you have had your mortgage on him winning the CH? It is a long way to the Champion Hurdle yet though. I don't get why people have to have a pop to be honest, I used to mention this stat as a bit of fun really, I did post smileys as I remember, but it so often transpires to be true.

I get it with Tanlic, the guy is a nasty bully, but actually thought better of you Grey. I'm not having a pop at you Grey, just a bit disappointed in you tbh with a cheap jibe at me. That is my problem obviously. I will get over it. I am sure I will get stick for just stating the fact that some people just have to have a pop even though I haven't posted on here for nearly 5 years. I just don't get that type of pettiness and supposed point scoring. Now I have got that off my chest, I expect a right load of sh1t coming my way. Yet, I don't think what I have said in response to ridicule is unfair. I just don't get the need for ridicule, have I got a history of talking bollox that encourages it? Or have I in the past been an important contributor to this forum? Why the ridicule? Just asking for a friend.

 

[Desert Orchid]

The 'ignore' facility is a very helpful tool, EC21.

A lot more helpful than a number of forum tools.

 

[EC21]

Yeah and no horse who name stats with the letter Z and ends in Z has ever won the 2000 guineas.........Geezus wept:lol:

I only been back a few days, and twice you just can't help yourself can you? What is it with you? I see you been bullying DO for a good while now and getting away with it. You won't whilst I'm posting chap I will tell you that. I know your number Tanlic, I met so many big mouth, big themsleves up, folk, like you in my life. People like you suppress a forum with your snidey digs and bullying ways. What is your issue with wanting to ridicule people to try and make yourself look clever, when you clearly aren't? I'm seriously asking you, what the f*ck is wrong with you chap?

 

[EC21]

The 'ignore' facility is a very helpful tool, EC21.

A lot more helpful than a number of forum tools.

I won't put people on ignore DO. No one bothers me that much. I just get so tired of seeing people like Tanlic on forums, throwing around the snidey comments and getting away with it. I'm too old now for watching people like that in action with their veiled or obvious abuse of decent posters.

 

[Marb]

Haha. This is going to be the thread that just keeps on giving this season. NAP!

A top class hurdler gets a high rating and within 6 minutes all hell breaks loose.

I have seen this before.

 

[barjon]

I only been back a few days, and twice you just can't help yourself can you? What is it with you? I see you been bullying DO for a good while now and getting away with it. You won't whilst I'm posting chap I will tell you that. I know your number Tanlic, I met so many big mouth, big themsleves up, folk, like you in my life. People like you suppress a forum with your snidey digs and bullying ways. What is your issue with wanting to ridicule people to try and make yourself look clever, when you clearly aren't? I'm seriously asking you, what the f*ck is wrong with you chap?

Well, I wonder if he’s ever directly insulted you as you’ve just insulted him.

 

[Marb]

Well, I wonder if he’s ever directly insulted you as you’ve just insulted him.

Plus Grey's comment paraphrasing EC12 about no horse winning the Fighting Fifth and the Champion Hurdle in the same season only seemed tongue in cheek or what you might call banter to me. I don't think I have ever seen anyone accuse Grey of insulting them in the time I have used this forum.

EC21 is appreciated on here for his experience and opinions but he is getting way too easily offended as far as I can see.

As much as this should be a friendly forum and is most of the time, if you are as easily offended as appears EC21 is right now you will not enjoy it as much.

 

[Desert Orchid]

I see you been bullying DO for a good while now and getting away with it.

I wouldn't know.

 

[granger]

C.H. kempton, Cheltenham

State Man : Leopardstown Christmas, Gowran possibly, Cheltenham

Honeysuckle, Fairyhouse, DRF, Cheltenham

Sir Gerhard.... Will need to jump a fence soon

 

[Outsider]

Didnt PUNJABI win the FF and CH

 

[EC21]

Well, I wonder if he’s ever directly insulted you as you’ve just insulted him.

No insults there, in fact compliments for him. I don't think you have been on here long enough to comment on Tanlic's behaviour tbh. No offence, but you don't know the half of it chap..

Just to keep this post on Champion Hurdle chat...I think Night Nurse will win it easily.

 

[EC21]

Plus Grey's comment paraphrasing EC12 about no horse winning the Fighting Fifth and the Champion Hurdle in the same season only seemed tongue in cheek or what you might call banter to me. I don't think I have ever seen anyone accuse Grey of insulting them in the time I have used this forum.

EC21 is appreciated on here for his experience and opinions but he is getting way too easily offended as far as I can see.

As much as this should be a friendly forum and is most of the time, if you are as easily offended as appears EC21 is right now you will not enjoy it as much.

Grey hasn't offended me, just disappointed me Marble. Banter usually has a laughing smiley the last time I looked though. I enjoy it just fine mostly reading this forum, same as you do, and you sometimes aren't that keen when someone takes the p1ss out of you either are you?? I seem to remember recently you being upset yourself by Grassy, if my memory serves right. I just knew pointing stuff out would get the same old same old. People on this forum have sat by and allowed DO to be bullied for months on here. Do not make out that that is a friendly forum in not snuffing that sh1t out. A friendly forum would have stuck up for DO, instead most of you turned a blind eye to the obvious clear and snidey veiled bullying he had to endure from Tanlic. Don't try and make out I am delicate flower here, I really am not chap. I just hate bullies and those who sit by and allow it, without speaking out. Anyway, I had my say, get on with your "friendly" forum. Pity that "friendliness" doesn't apply to all the members here eh? I'm sure the same old will come out and give me sh1t now, do I care? do I fcuk. I just hate bullies, most normal people should do to.

Just to keep this post on Champion Hurdle chat...I think Night Nurse will win it easily.

 

[Truncheon]

Didnt PUNJABI win the FF and CH

Yes

FF was run at Wetherby that season

 

[EC21]

Didnt PUNJABI win the FF and CH

What about the other 24 years though?

I did say it had happened..... and it will happen again, but it is not a positive when you check out the odds v winner expectation. Most of the time I was tongue in cheeking guys, ...come on, I used to post it every year, do you seriously think I thought it was a genuine stat?..come on. It is supposed to be me with no sense of humour ffs.

 

[EC21]

Yes

FF was run at Wetherby that season

That spoils it then ....I am kidding by the way

 

[EC21]

Just for the record, I think CH is the best hurdler I have seen for a long long time.

 

[walsworth]

I no longer pay much attention to the big races, prefer to scrape a small profit from lower class handicaps, but I must have a look at the Fighting Fifth now.

 

[reet hard]

A psychologist would have a field day on this forum.
EC,
In the past,you often said "play the ball, not the man". Maybe it's time to take your own counsel?

 

[EC21]

A psychologist would have a field day on this forum.
EC,
In the past,you often said "play the ball, not the man". Maybe it's time to take your own counsel?

He always plays the man though Reet, then when someone plays him he cries like a baby. I know you and Marble are his mates from TRF, but he was a twat on there too, I used to see how he treated people. I can't stand him, no point pretending otherwise. We have had many duels me and you but I always knew we differed on racing views, hopefully not personalities. I've seen enough of him for a few years now to know what he is. I wouldn't harbour long here now that I know he can't change tack. He used to diss times and sectional times when I quoted them, just look at him now, he quotes them all the time. A strange change of tack yes? I'm just highlighting what a tw@t he is. Now I'm happy I have done that, if others can't do the same, then I feel sorry for them. He is shutting down discussion. Have I ever done that? No, just the opposite. He just closes down anything he doesn't like. Well, tbh, he can carry on, maybe the forum deserves him then. A shame though. I am not a well man, I just thought I would have another go on here, sadly, the support for such as him tells me, what a waste of time. I have enjoyed the banter, been right good on here at times, seriously, right good.

 

[EC21]

I no longer pay much attention to the big races, prefer to scrape a small profit from lower class handicaps, but I must have a look at the Fighting Fifth now.

You surely must. The key is finding the one that ran to it's best. When you look at the winner and rate it off every other horse, you can see the monster that CH could well be. I have seen a horse like this once before, Golden Cygnet, and if Nicky had had him he would not have broke his neck running in the scottish champion hurdle against Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon as a novice. I so wish Nicky had trained Golden Cygnet, or someone like him. Putting a novice up against those animals was criminal as a Novice. I was listening to that race on the old extel commentary? no visual in those days, it was like God had died when the news came through. Watching it on youtube is truly heart rending now.

How many remember the small loudspeaker hanging off the wall with the extel commentary? That is all you had then apart from what was on bbc or itv on a saturday afternoon to watch or a really big meeting in the week. Hard to believe you couldn't see every race isn't it? a bit like football. You can see every team now play every game, in the 60s and 70s it had to be on bbc or itv, or it was lost forever visually.

My local bookie in the 70s was a 2 up 2 down house with the front room as the bookies. Fookin shite. It all changed really in the 80s, things changed, not all races on TV but it started improving visually, bookies moved forward then. I still remember the chalk it up result guy in the 70s, that was your results, on a chalk board hand written. A lot of people think it was great then in many ways, it really wasn't, it was shite. You went to put your bet on, the counter was 6 foot high with a meshing on top with a little gap at bottom to put your bet on, just in case you fancied robbing them It really was sh1t you know.

Just a few memories there for the oldies on here.. The good old days..fookin not.

For those who think racing TV coverage is sh1t now, well you best be grateful with what you have now seriously. In the 70s on BBC you had Julian Wilson, one shoulder 3 foot higher than the other, wabbling generic bollox to the camera..then he would bring Jimmy Lindley on..all you got from him, bear in mind was he was the paddock watcher ffs,..all he ever said was...XXXX looks a picture in the paddock..fookin hopeless,,,every horse was that,,what on earth was the point of Lindley? He so had the easiest money in TV racing coverage history.

Just a few memories when I was a younger man. I hope you enjoyed those memories you wrinkly ones like me.