Road To The Foxhunters

Tanlic said:
Are you and Jinny kidding?

As I said she smacked the horse with her right hand after she jumped the last driving him towards the hazard because she wasn't looking where she was going.....She then thought "oh Fook me" and in a desperate last attempt changed whip hands just as she hit the rails........that was two mistakes not one. If she hadn't tried to change whip hands and and used her hands instead of thinking "I gotta use the whip" the horse may well have reacted in time and missed the hazard.......to say no one could have avoided what happened is complete bullshit she messed up and that's that. IMO
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She changed hands and got at least one smack in before the horse got to the bend. She is entirely blameless for what happened.
 
HawkWing said:
If every other jockey switch their hands and take the whip into the left hand after the last to make sure that the horse avoids going out on another circuit, you would have a point.

However, this never happens. Jockeys (pro and amateur) ride with their whip on their right (in this case) and use the rail to straighten their horse. This is what all jockeys do and Jane Mangan shouldnt be criticised for assuming that her horse would use the rail to keep straight. It is a 1 in 10,000 shot that the horse doesnt use the rail to keep striaght but keeps going through it. It was unlucky.

To say that riding to the rail was due to over-excitement is the hack criticism - of amateurs (and women jockeys) that is inevitably going to come. Its the lack of hack criticisms like this that usually separate this place from other forums.
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You are talking about a straight rail . If she had followed that rail she'd have been doing a 45 degree rh turn to get round it:blink: She admitted herself she messed up I think you should too............she should have come out from the rail as soon as she jumped the last or before considering what was up ahead


Where she thought she was going beats me. She had 12 strides to correct the horse and take him right to avoid the dolled off area before the horse jinked (probably he thought where is she taking me) and even if the horse hadn't jinked she would have gone straight through the rail and on to the wrong course.

Watch the much (Wrongly) criticized Sam WC on Long Run. He's on the rail but he starts to ease out from it 2 out and he steers his horse to an angle that will allow him to run in straight line' He uses his right hand when giving Long Run a slap but he can afford to having plenty of space between him and the corner she's steered out to avoid. AP and BG both kept wide as the know being next to that rail is the wrong place to be if your horse does hang towards it.
 
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I really feel for her. Just watched it again, and first smack is with her right hand, then she (presumably, cos none of us lot know!) felt him drift so changed her whip and gave him a smack with her left, but IMO ( and lets get this clear - its only IMO !!!) she forgot the bit where you use your right hand to pull him out a bit (which with the benefit of being an armchair hindsight person, I think would have been far more effective). Horse has gone round that rail twice in the race already - I know countless horses who would (unless ridden to be told not to) presume they were following the rail again and not take any notice of the tape.


All that excitement, coming to win a race like that,knowing that a horse was comiing up behind you - can I honestly say I wouldnt lose a bit of the plot in the last couple of furlongs? nope - Id have almost certainally have forgotten something. As would an awful lot of 18 year olds. Will she do it again? Id put all my winnings from this week on no - but sometime in the future, someone else will unless they dispense with the tape "rail".

Dessie - be fair. Yes she hit the horse before he ran into/jinked the "rail" (so technically - whip in correct hand and shouldnt have happened) - but it was barely a stride before. No time for anyone to have done anything about it just with a smack.
 
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Ardross said:
Salsify seemed to stay 3m 4f at Stratford without much trouble.
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And on what kind of ground was that? Against what level of competition?

The last half mile at Stratford is a gruelling test. Ive watched the horse run in every race over the last three years. Did you read Sweeny's article about being surprised that Salsify had anything left last year when he went for him? That he was sure he got there too soon. He produced the horse perfectly this year, just that where they came back to him last year, they didnt this year. He realised coming down the hill that Chapoturgeon wasnt the one he had to beat and thought that Oscar Delta would come back like last year. He was looking for Chapoturgeon turning around into the straight.

I think those who are saying that she should have actively avoided the dolled off area - move the horse centrally are being very very wise after the event. I think its entirely reasonable to try and use the rail as a help (she may be guilty for assuming that the horse would view a tape and a rail as the same) but its a 1 in 10,000 event that the horse would jink. Had she taken the horse wider and got beaten a head, there would have been equally the same hack criticisms.
 
trudij said:
I really feel for her. Just watched it again, and first smack is with her right hand, then she (presumably, cos none of us lot know!) felt him drift so changed her whip and gave him a smack with her left, but IMO ( and lets get this clear - its only IMO !!!) she forgot the bit where you use your right hand to pull him out a bit (which with the benefit of being an armchair hindsight person, I think would have been far more effective). Horse has gone round that rail twice in the race already - I know countless horses who would (unless ridden to be told not to) presume they were following the rail again and not take any notice of the tape.
.
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I think this is very fair, but I do not believe that pros jumping the last have in their mind to avoid the tape (hazard??) like some are claiming that she should have done. They ride a finish, just like she did. She was unlucky.
 
I backed Salsify and won a lot of money on a double with Bobs Worth but felt sick for her. She did nothing wrong IMO, horse just jinked.
 
HawkWing said:
To say that riding to the rail was due to over-excitement is the hack criticism - of amateurs (and women jockeys) that is enivitably going to come. Its the lack of hack criticisms like this that usually separate this place from other forums.
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You see that is most definitely not what I'm doing. I'm calling a spade a spade and a mistake for what it is. The stereotypes are in your head not mine.
 
Aragorn said:
I backed Salsify and won a lot of money on a double with Bobs Worth but felt sick for her. She did nothing wrong IMO, horse just jinked.
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But don't you see the horse wouldn't have jinked if Jane had kept him away from the elbow of the rail, like everyone else. The horse was looking after itself because she had ridden him into it.
 
The other jockeys did not deliberately avoid the kink in the rail. To suggest that they did is nonsense.

Of course, learning equates to failing for some.
 
Jockeys do not come wide to avoid the tape up the cheltenham run in.

To suggest that they do is nonsense.

Like in the Long Run argument and countless others, to adopt a new stance doesn't mean you are giving others anything. It doesn't make you any less of an individual.
 
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SteveM said:
I feel for her too but that doesn't make it anyone else's fault.
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oh I completely agree - and I expect she would as well. She was on the horse, and she was out in front - its not even like she was leant on to run into it.

Plus - I backed Salsify, so I was pretty happy that she'd forgotten the basic bit of riding - point the horses head where you want it to go and the body tends to follow... ;)
 
I think the tape had got soaked in the rain and was drooping somewhat so possibly it didn't look much of a rail to the horse.
 
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