Road to the Gold Cup 2011

Euronymous said:
The bottom line about Long Run and his stamina "issues" is that most second season chasers are going to have that question mark going into a Gold Cup. The only exceptions to that rule being a Denman type, and horses like that are few and far between:<3:

Imperial Commander had similar question marks to answer this time last year.
Click to expand...

but IC did have Cheltenham form though..I agree..his stamina could have been in question..but overall he had less question marks on both fronts than LR does

IC was also double figure odds at this stage..whereas LR with more questions to answer is already half IC's odds of February last
 
clivex said:
What would beat him? hypothectical of course (and thats not the name of a horse)



Moscow flyer did

Desesrt orchid too
Click to expand...


Moscow Flyer didn't suddenly start staying further when had slowed down though ,,he stayed it when he was in his pomp..likewise DO..he was in his pomp when he won over further..so i'm not seeing the similarity there tbh

with KS..people are saying his rating has dropped..so if he met a hypothetical true G1 3m5f horse ...175 horse lets say..he would lose at level weights..whereas in the lesser whitbread he runs off what he has fallen to in the handicap

so it would look like he now has sudden stamina to some people..when in fact he is competing at a lower llevel which aids the longer trip

you see it all the time on the flat..horses that only have won over 8f are eventually dropped down and can win 12f sellers.
 
Last edited:
DO and MF were both exceptional horses but MF went on to lose his next few races.

The point is a fair one perhaps though although i think that KS will either win GC distance or no distance myself. He might just be past it to the extent that appetite is not longer there regardless. Or he may not be
 
Last edited:
davidjohnson said:
Taking any race as gospel isn't a wise move I agree, but treating one like it didn't exist probably isn't the best either.
Click to expand...

that was the point i made about theKingwell Hurdle..a race that has been a better pointer to the winner of the Champion Hurdle than either the Bula or Fifhting Fifth in recent years..readily dismissed by some on the CH thread as though it never took place

strange how a decent trial like the Kingwell can be just wiped out like that..but a race like the FF that is regularly touted year in year out as very relevent pointer to the CH...when in fact that race has very little relevance to what wins the CH

strange one imo
 
Last edited:
Yes but it is the race it is rather than what it has been. Past records of trials dont mean an awful lot unless there is agood reason why the form cant be carried forward

I never get this hang up about past records of trials myself
 
clivex said:
Yes but it is the race it is rather than what it has been. Past records of trials dont mean an awful lot unless there is agood reason why the form cant be carried forward

I never get this hang up about past records of trials myself
Click to expand...

I think the FF is too far away from CH day to be of relevance due to teh way hurdlers are brought on steadily all season..it used to be the case that hurdlers were campaigned with more than one race in mind..going back to the 70's when trainers were hungry for the other prizes throughout the year with their top horses

I think the Kingwell is a better trial because its simply closer to the CH in time and has in the past copped your 2nd half season improver and also gets established horses when they are near peak for their main target race

Just looking at this seasons FF..does anyone think a horse like Binocular was at his complete peak in the FF?..whereas if B had run in the Kingwell we are more likely to see the fully fired article..hence teh Kingwell is a better CH trial than the FF..imo

it reflects the change in pattern of how the season is now viewed by connections..basically..we just want that big un:)
 
Last edited:
If your convinced that the Kingwell will prove very relevant to the CH and nobody else is, rather than take it as a personal insult, snap up the fancy prices and then roll out the Monte Cristos and Champagne when you are proven right.
 
Indeed!! I've heard the FF drum being banged for months now EC - we get the message!!!!
 
Last edited:
davidjohnson said:
If your convinced that the Kingwell will prove very relevant to the CH and nobody else is, rather than take it as a personal insult, snap up the fancy prices and then roll out the Monte Cristos and Champagne when you are proven right.
Click to expand...

Make sure you have the Old Holborn and Vimto on standby, just in case you're wrong though.
 
And if you are wrong, you could still get the Monte Cristos out - the ham and cheese sandwich variety!
 
EC1 said:
Just looking at this seasons FF..does anyone think a horse like Binocular was at his complete peak in the FF?..whereas if B had run in the Kingwell we are more likely to see the fully fired article..hence teh Kingwell is a better CH trial than the FF..imo

it reflects the change in pattern of how the season is now viewed by connections..basically..we just want that big un:)
Click to expand...

It depends what the objective is though... what they may be using the race for and whether the timing suits the game plan.
 
BTW the TTF window closes today... not too late to get the likes of Tidal Bay and co into those lists to overhaul the leaders!
 
I was a big fun of Mille Chief for the Champion but after the Kingwell I think he is a liverpool horse and will notstayin March the hill.


Menorah and Hurricane are the 2 for me and as a long shot Thousand Stars.
 
davidjohnson said:
If your convinced that the Kingwell will prove very relevant to the CH and nobody else is, rather than take it as a personal insult, snap up the fancy prices and then roll out the Monte Cristos and Champagne when you are proven right.
Click to expand...



I have backed MC ..yes i do think the Kingwell is relevant..its no dafter than other things I read on here..like Beef Or Salmon was the top chaser one year..that was a beaut that was :D

I can't see how making a point is taking something as an insult..so your comment just puzzles me..but then again..a lot i read on here does puzzle me;)
 
Grasshopper said:
Make sure you have the Old Holborn and Vimto on standby, just in case you're wrong though.
Click to expand...


here's how it pans out Grass..if HF don't win..you and a dozen others will come on here making any excuse you can think of why he lost..if HF wins you'll be taking the piss out of me

if MC or OW wins..there will be a pin dropping moment..thread will be quieter than the Arc thread was post race:D

I don't like Old Holborn either;)
 
If you're that adept at seeing into the future, you should chabge your username to Nostradamus.

I see you're already expecting to have the "piss" taken out of you if HF wins. More victim mentality nonsense, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Grasshopper said:
If you're that adept at seeing into the future, you should chabge your username to Nostradamus.

I see you're already expecting to have the "piss" taken out of you if HF wins. More victim mentality nonsense, as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

change the record Grass - you are starting to sound like a boring old fart mate;)

you are piss poor at analysing someone as well

looks like trying to predict the future isn't cool here anymore then according to you..so what is the point of putting views forward?..a bit of a daft remark isn't it?

your tone recently is tiresome..i'm bored with it mate..someone has to tell you like;)
 
Last edited:
EC1 said:
change the record Grass - you are starting to sound like a boring old fart mate;)

you are piss poor at analysing someone as well

looks like trying to predict the future isn't cool here anymore then according to you..so what is the point of putting views forward?..a bit of a daft remark isn't it?

your tone recently is tiresome..i'm bored with it mate..someone has to tell you like;)
Click to expand...

You started it, ya fud. ;)
 
Back
Top