Royal Ascot 2022

Desert Orchid said:
I'm just logging up my pre-race ratings ahead of trying to come up with figures for the races themselves.

One thing that has struck me is that I had a number of horses, nearly all in the handicaps, with the '+t' annotation. This is something I'd add if the form book comment strongly suggested there was more to come from a step up in trip. I'll need to go back and check the number but I reckon at least half won and, since they were the handicaps, the SPs would have been anywhere between palatable and genuinely tasty. I don't think there was any more than two in any race.

That's an approach I'll need to remind myself of in future.
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That's one of the best angles in betting IMO.
 
Slim said:
This is the absolute key to the horse. He is an out and out stayer. He won't be getting beat over 2m+ on good ground any time soon.
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I like him. Thought he would be hard to beat. It's just the way the race unfolded.
 
barjon said:
You could pretty much say the same for any horse that comes from well off the pace to get within a length of the winner, albeit that they “lost” the ground deliberately rather than accidentally. In any event I think that Strad was pretty much all out to get to where he did, whereas Kyprios was nowhere near that to hold off him and MS.
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Coming off the pace when there is no pace! Princess Zoe basically stopped where he wanted to go and in a straight line. Watch the race from 4 out to just inside the 2 and how the first 3 home were used.
Strad was used up to close the gap and was finished before the line yes.

Anyway I'm starting to bore myself now :cool:
 
Frankie ia in big trouble...........Gosden thinks he should have won both the Oaks and The Gold Cup

No if or buts about it........no rides on Saturday for Gosden.........anyone know any alternative reason why?
 
They have clearly fallen out. The whole thing was too public and Gosden is too big a **** to not keep digging. You can't throw your jockey under the bus.
 
Perhaps that’s why Hollie has made an appearance. What’s that got to do with Frankie, anyway?
 
It looks like Dettori has only one booked ride over the next few days, on Saturday at Newmarket where the Gosdens have three runners and he isn't booked for any of them. His ride is for Beckett.

Maybe they're taking time to cool down but it can hardly be a positive. especially when you have to wonder how many trainers and owners might want his services.

Is he, as someone once said to me, being "ostrichised"?
 
"Everyone has eyes in their head."

Except Gosden when Havlin is riding.
 
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JG can see a lot more than you give him credit for.
Rab Havlin is a stand-in jockey, and that's probably all he'll ever aspire to.
It's been apparent for a while that JG is exasperated with Frankie, both for his self-publicity clowning, his riding; and his weak performances at Epsom an Ascot have just brought it closer to the surface.
FD's card is most definitely marked, and he may not last the season out,imo.
 
Slim said:
So Gosden can't see Rab Havlin is one of the worst jockeys to ever sit on a horse?
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Havlin is mainly there to educate the 2yr olds and rarely gets a big race ride

This split has been brewing for 12 months

The ride on Stradivarius in last years Gold Cup
Palace Pier in the QEII
Emily Upjohn in the Oaks
And the Royal Ascot **** ups last week
 
Except that Fallon jnr is a young lad with respect. Dettori is a senior with years of experience and an attitude at times that stinks. (I have personally known him since he was 16 when I worked with him at Cumani’s). Gosden is known for being diplomatic and reserved. The fact that he has publicly stated his disapproval speaks volumes.
 
Imagine one of the best jockeys of all time having to go out like this because a **** horse like Stradivarius got beat twice at Ascot.
 
One of my least favourite things about the sport is when the current discourse, as it is now, is all about Jockeys. I don't give two shits who ride the horses I back, never have.
 
Euronymous said:
One of my least favourite things about the sport is when the current discourse, as it is now, is all about Jockeys. I don't give two shits who ride the horses I back, never have.
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I'm the opposite. While I acknowledge most top jockeys can do near enough the same job on a winning horse, and sometimes the role they played on a horse gets over exaggerated, the lifestyles they live, having to starve all year, the dedication to do what they do I think needs to be applauded.

When I first got into racing as a teenager 20 years ago or so while the top jockeys were good enough calibre, Fallon, Kinane, Murtagh etc, they were part of an era that didn't speak a lot, on camera at least, and therefore viewers like me didn't connect with them as much as we do with the jockeys of today..

Nowadays we have great stories like Hollie Doyle, a very competative list of jockeys at the top table who are good communicators, and when I have a losing day, I feel that at least a percentage of my money went to support a horse racing game that jockeys were apart of and have dedicated and sacrificed so much for.

In some instances their own lives.
 
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Euronymous said:
One of my least favourite things about the sport is when the current discourse, as it is now, is all about Jockeys. I don't give two shits who ride the horses I back, never have.
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These, I think, are unrelated situations.

Jockeys and horses are as important to each other as football teams and managers. A good one will get the best out of the other.

The Dettori situation is worth discussing because he has been among the very best in the saddle for a generation of racing fans and he's now making high profile mistakes that are worth dissecting.

In other news...

I always check the jockey's record on the horse / for the trainer / at the track before deciding on a bet. It might not stop me betting it but it will almost always make me think.
 
The trainer is way more important to me. Sometimes the horses I back get good rides, sometimes bad - I put that down to variance.
 
I'm genuinely surprised that Gosden has openly criticised Dettori. I thought he was better than that. Prehaps Jinny J is right but I'm still disappointed.

I thought Dettori should have won the Oaks on Emily, I thought he made a couple of poor decisions during the race. The incident with the hood seemed to get to Dettori more than it should have.
 
Colin said:
I'm genuinely surprised that Gosden has openly criticised Dettori. I thought he was better than that. Prehaps Jinny J is right but I'm still disappointed.

I thought Dettori should have won the Oaks on Emily, I thought he made a couple of poor decisions during the race. The incident with the hood seemed to get to Dettori more than it should have.
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I don't think this issue is about Gosden being a bad person, Col.

He is answerable to owners. I suspect this is what might have enhanced the problem.

If these were mickey mouse races around Catterick Gosden wouldn't have critisized him.

The races in question are the creme de la creme of the sport.

I feel sorry for Frankie, but the best thing he can do now is bite the bullet, take it on the chin, stay as humble as possible and see what rides he can get going forward.

Moaning, whinging and sour grapes won't get him any extra rides.

Proving he is not a liability will...
 
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Euronymous said:
Sometimes the horses I back get good rides, sometimes bad - I put that down to variance.
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Yes, but if the horse is seriously targeting a race the chances of him employing a duff jockey are pretty thin. If he lets his usual jockeys away to ride elsewhere the chances are the horse isn't going to run its race, I reckon. I also reckon I'll avoid a very high percentage of losers avoiding horses with such jockey bookings. (Speaking from experience.)
 
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