Royal Ascot 2022

jinnyj said:
Oh I would never discard him. I just think at times he’s a stroppy sod and it definitely affected his subsequent rides. For Gosden to comment so publicly, he was very angry about it....and rightly so. I watched Big JG watching Inspiral and his jaw was so set as though he was just waiting for it to go wrong. Fortunately the filly was sensational and you could see him give a big sigh of relief.
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I only read the Gosden comments and so he may have been misrepresented, but it seemed to me he was just as annoyed if not more by Saga's defeat. He should have won he seemed to be saying. Seeing Rowland's timings and the fact that only Majloom ran a faster final furlong than Saga at RA, and that the horse also ran a very fast final 2f, would say to me Dettori timed his run wrongly, i.e. too late. Gosden gripe seemed to be that he overcomplicated his rides. To me he was too far back.
 
Eleanora Duse said:
I only read the Gosden comments and so he may have been misrepresented, but it seemed to me he was just as annoyed if not more by Saga's defeat. He should have won he seemed to be saying. Seeing Rowland's timings and the fact that only Majloom ran a faster final furlong than Saga at RA, and that the horse also ran a very fast final 2f, would say to me Dettori timed his run wrongly, i.e. too late. Gosden gripe seemed to be that he overcomplicated his rides. To me he was too far back.
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Yes, but the meeja has to make something out of nothing these days.

I picked up on the Saga remark too, not having heard it the day before.

This takes me off at a slight tangent, Harry Charlton said after the race that they'd always felt Thesis was their best 3yo. You'd have to worry about the quality of inmate they have at the yard if that's the case, notwithstanding the fact that the Britannia always takes a bit of winning. That Saga was able to give him 7lbs and arguably should have beaten him hammers home the notion that they can't have anything top class among the 3yos in the yard. This interests me because I often like to keep an eye out for lightly-raced Juddmonte 3yos trained there in the second half of the season.
 
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Eleanora Duse said:
I only read the Gosden comments and so he may have been misrepresented, but it seemed to me he was just as annoyed if not more by Saga's defeat. He should have won he seemed to be saying. Seeing Rowland's timings and the fact that only Majloom ran a faster final furlong than Saga at RA, and that the horse also ran a very fast final 2f, would say to me Dettori timed his run wrongly, i.e. too late. Gosden gripe seemed to be that he overcomplicated his rides. To me he was too far back.
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I don’t think there is much doubt that Gosden was pretty upset with Frankie over both. Despite his final words “we put it behind us and move on” I wonder how long he will stay loyal to Frankie with this sort of thing happening more frequently (I don’t think Gosden would have been particularly pleased with Frankie’s handling of Inspiral in the early part of the race either.). Everyone has off days and Frankie is a class act, but I think his days are numbered now with the Gosden boys.
 
New ratings of handicap winners:

Coltrane 104 (+6)
Get Shirty 105 (+6)
Dark Shift 102 (+4)
Rising Star 95 (+5)
Secret State 100 (+7)
Thesis 99 (+9)
Inver Park 98 (+4)
Candleford 104 (+13)
Heredia 106 (+8)
Latin Lover 89 (+6)
Rohaan 115 (+6)
Missed The Cu(n)t 108 (+13)
 
Does anyone actually think that as a good renewal of the Gold Cup?

Considering Strad showed signs last year his days of glory were coming to and end and might well have won with a better ride says it all.

The 2nd's winning record adds up to 1 from 8 and Cesarewitch 2nd Burning Victory a handicapper ran the winner to 1 1/2 lengths.

I sincerly hope we have better stayers coming up through the ranks because what we have at this point in time is very poor by comparison
 
The winner and the second are four year olds that are likely to improve and peak as 6 or 7 year olds in staying races Tan. The fact that they finished 1st and 2nd in this so early in their careers marks them out as very good horses.

Kyprios has clearly been improving as he's stepped up in trip, and Mojo Star was second to Hurricane Lane in the St Leger. I'm very surprised you don't see the very obvious positives in their form.

Stradivarius's best RPR in the race was 126, and these two put up 119 and 118 first time up compared to Stradivarius's performance as a 4 year old in the race which was only a pound higher at 120.

Your thought process is pretty much the same as saying that Stradivarius's first Gold Cup was poor.
 
I think if you do some more research you'll find Hurricane Lane was given a few pounds more than horses like Capri and Kew Gardens
Hence Mojo Star deservidly or not gets higher rating having finished 2nd in the St Leger.

TBH it don't mean didly squat and actually Stradivarius put up 118 according to the OR given.

The fact is he became a legend winning more than just Gold Cups but the Stradivarius we saw this year was a shadow of the 2020 winner

He has been on the downgrade for 2 years and along comes a couple of half decent stayers and he loses another Gold Cup

Suddenly Kyprios is the next coming......Not in my book he is not
 
An optimist would say that Kyprios has got it until he proves he hasn’t.
A pessimist would say that Kyprios hasn’t got it until he proves he has.
For me, I think we’ve seen a changing of the guard and with not much else on the horizon (I’ve never rated Trueshan overmuch) I’m quite happy to sit in the optimist’s tent.
 
Tanlic said:
I think if you do some more research you'll find Hurricane Lane was given a few pounds more than horses like Capri and Kew Gardens
Hence Mojo Star deservidly or not gets higher rating having finished 2nd in the St Leger.

TBH it don't mean didly squat and actually Stradivarius put up 118 according to the OR given.

The fact is he became a legend winning more than just Gold Cups but the Stradivarius we saw this year was a shadow of the 2020 winner

He has been on the downgrade for 2 years and along comes a couple of half decent stayers and he loses another Gold Cup

Suddenly Kyprios is the next coming......Not in my book he is not
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At times I think you take stances for the sake it. This is a really God awful take.
 
I wonder how connections of Trueshan are interpreting Hollie Doyle's quoted comment that Nashwa, who got an RPR of 115 for winning the French Oaks the other day, is the best she's ever sat on?

Could it be that Trueshan isn't as good as his 120 OR? If that's the case, it brings the AGC form and general level of stayers down another peg.

Just asking the questions.

Personally I suspect Doyle is probably talking potential because, as I said before, I think Trueshan is a pretty solid 120 yardstick. (And yardsticks by definition tend not to win good G1s.)
 
Desert Orchid said:
I wonder how connections of Trueshan are interpreting Hollie Doyle's quoted comment that Nashwa, who got an RPR of 115 for winning the French Oaks the other day, is the best she's ever sat on?

Could it be that Trueshan isn't as good as his 120 OR? If that's the case, it brings the AGC form and general level of stayers down another peg.

Just asking the questions.

Personally I suspect Doyle is probably talking potential because, as I said before, I think Trueshan is a pretty solid 120 yardstick. (And yardsticks by definition tend not to win good G1s.)
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She is sat on a horse who travels with gears with Nashwa. The feel she must get!
 
Slim said:
At times I think you take stances for the sake it. This is a really God awful take.
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Yeah you're the same guy who told me I was a bad judge when I stated back before the 1000 Guines that Inspiral would eat anything around alive for breakfast........
and to top that when he didn't run who put the 16/1 winner up as his selection.....That would be me.

I also backed Kyprios for the Gold Cup but while he won he scraped home in a sub standard Gold Cup IMO.

As you say he's 11/4 for the Goodwood Cup which tells us what? It tells us the bookies don't regard him as certain to beat the same rivals again if they turn up..

Unlike Inspiral who's 4/7 for the Falmouth there was no wow factor in the Gold Cup and to many ot left doubts about what woud have happened if Franke hadn't cost Strad about 3 lengths taking the scenic view.

That said maybe Moore cost Kyprios a few lengths concentrating more on keeping Frankie hemmed in than going for home a bit earlier....time will tell
 
barjon said:
An optimist would say that Kyprios has got it until he proves he hasn’t.
A pessimist would say that Kyprios hasn’t got it until he proves he has.
For me, I think we’ve seen a changing of the guard and with not much else on the horizon (I’ve never rated Trueshan overmuch) I’m quite happy to sit in the optimist’s tent.
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We saw a real champ on the downgrade and when the real champs are on the downgrade they get beat.

That's not being pessimistic that's facing up to reality..anyone who thinks Strad is now within 7lbs of his best ever needs help

Burning Victory rated 12lbs lower than him ran Strad to a neck FFS..back in the day he wouldn't have gotten within 5 lengths of him....That's how ordinary a Gold Cup this turned out to be
 
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Tanlic said:
Yeah you're the same guy who told me I was a bad judge when I stated back before the 1000 Guines that Inspiral would eat anything around alive for breakfast........
and to top that when he didn't run who put the 16/1 winner up as his selection.....That would be me.

I also backed Kyprios for the Gold Cup but while he won he scraped home in a sub standard Gold Cup IMO.

As you say he's 11/4 for the Goodwood Cup which tells us what? It tells us the bookies don't regard him as certain to beat the same rivals again if they turn up..

Unlike Inspiral who's 4/7 for the Falmouth there was no wow factor in the Gold Cup and to many ot left doubts about what woud have happened if Franke hadn't cost Strad about 3 lengths taking the scenic view.

That said maybe Moore cost Kyprios a few lengths concentrating more on keeping Frankie hemmed in than going for home a bit earlier....time will tell
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He was a very easy winner of a Gold Cup ran at a crawl. Had they gone a gallop he'd have won 10l.
 
Re: the bookmskers being 11/4.

If the bookmskers were always right there would be no point in betting. They've priced this race really badly.
 
Frankel said:
Easy winner :lol:

2nd part is at least correct.
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QUOTES: It wasn't a nice race to ride. KYPRIOS stepped slow, which is unusual for him and I didn't like the spot we were in as we were going slow. They were getting an easy time up front and I had to move him to the outside - I don't like doing that. We got going and he's got there and Mojo Star has come to us and that's when he's clicked in, it was comfortable at the line. It wasn't a true test today but I'm glad he's come over here and won. There will be lots of good days with him. He was much the best - Ryan Moore, jockey.
 
Slim said:
QUOTES: It wasn't a nice race to ride. KYPRIOS stepped slow, which is unusual for him and I didn't like the spot we were in as we were going slow. They were getting an easy time up front and I had to move him to the outside - I don't like doing that. We got going and he's got there and Mojo Star has come to us and that's when he's clicked in, it was comfortable at the line. It wasn't a true test today but I'm glad he's come over here and won. There will be lots of good days with him. He was much the best - Ryan Moore, jockey.
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I get all that and there is better to come.

He did though get a better trip around than Strad. Whichever way it's dressed up Strad lost more ground than the length and a bit that he was beaten by.
 
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Frankel said:
I get all that and there is better to come.

He did though get a better trip around than Strad.
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This is the absolute key to the horse. He is an out and out stayer. He won't be getting beat over 2m+ on good ground any time soon.
 
Frankel said:
?………. Whichever way it's dressed up Strad lost more ground than the length and a bit that he was beaten by……….
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You could pretty much say the same for any horse that comes from well off the pace to get within a length of the winner, albeit that they “lost” the ground deliberately rather than accidentally. In any event I think that Strad was pretty much all out to get to where he did, whereas Kyprios was nowhere near that to hold off him and MS.
 
I'm just logging up my pre-race ratings ahead of trying to come up with figures for the races themselves.

One thing that has struck me is that I had a number of horses, nearly all in the handicaps, with the '+t' annotation. This is something I'd add if the form book comment strongly suggested there was more to come from a step up in trip. I'll need to go back and check the number but I reckon at least half won and, since they were the handicaps, the SPs would have been anywhere between palatable and genuinely tasty. I don't think there was any more than two in any race.

That's an approach I'll need to remind myself of in future.
 
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