Scottish Independence.....

it would only take a matter of time before these mindless bigots crawled out from under their stones and got on the ferry.
 
Well in fairness we don't know that they are from Northern Ireland, albeit I for one wouldn't be the slightest bit shocked to discover that they were and suspect its quite likely.

I think it also illustrates the dangers of thinking that some kind of devolution bug can suddenly sweep across the UK as FU had pointed out earlier. Extending this kind of referendum to Ulster would be borderline irresponsible

I smiled this evening as various local meglomaniacs (politicians) crawled onto our screens professing their conversion for regional assemblies (the same bodies which existed under the last government, but which were hardly attended by the same councillors now calling for their creation). Admittedly they tended to be talk shops and largely unaccountable capital spend allocators. They ran parallel with regional development agencies (which the Tories closed down when they came to power) and which no local councillors moved to try and sustain. Then they have something else called a 'Regional Leaders Board' and of course Local Strategic Partnerhsips which perform these functions today. None of this is that new, it's just that most people don't know these agencies and structures existed

It strikes me that its politicians sensing the possibility of securing themselves a new platform. The answer lie as much in the quality of the person you attract into these roles rather than the structure you put in place

The only one I can see geeting traction is the three northern regions who've already been operating a quasi development agency for over a decade now but with the statutory powers dispersed

In any event, if the job has been handed to William Hague it's doomed to grind to a halt. Scotland might get independence sooner than I realised yet
 
EC1 said:
that would be a shame

before i watched the docu on Murray..it will be on you tube somewhere..i couldn't stand her...but if you see her on the docu i think most people would change their minds about her.

she is really nice woman..does a lot for young people in Dunblane

some complete moron has tweeted that Murray should have died at Dunblane..what world are we living in? Police are looking in to it apparently
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I listened to Judy on Desert Island Discs recently and thought her very charming and interesting.
 
Flagship uberalles said:
Evens that the majority of loyalists are from NI.
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Dont know about the majority, but the ones I saw video of were Scottish and seem to have confused Scottish Nationalists with the IRA.

As I said to those looking for an English independence vote - don't let Orangemen and idiots vote.


Edit: According to the news it is Glasgow based Orange Order groups, not NI. I'd be interested to see just how much of the vote was down to filthy bigoted cunts like these and their lesser bigoted brothers and sisters. Held back from independence by a bunch of ******* bigots. Welcome to the 17th century.
 
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simmo said:
Dont know about the majority, but the ones I saw video of were Scottish and seem to have confused Scottish Nationalists with the IRA.

As I said to those looking for an English independence vote - don't let Orangemen and idiots vote.


Edit: According to the news it is Glasgow based Orange Order groups, not NI. I'd be interested to see just how much of the vote was down to filthy bigoted cunts like these and their lesser bigoted brothers and sisters. Held back from independence by a bunch of ******* bigots. Welcome to the 17th century.
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Anger management classes Simmo, or just find a woman ;)
 
Fair point

Shame to see salmond go in many ways. He's a clever and decent politican

Two things to come out of this

West Lothian question can now be dealt with once and for all. Should have been from the very first day. There is absolutely no justification for present arrangement

Regional assemblies are a complete waste of time. A wholly unecessary layer of government which serve no purpose whatsoever unless they are cited with a role which cannot be properly run by central government or county or city councils. Example would be transport in London which, much as I dislike him a politican, was run with great drive and sense by ken livngstone. The incredible success of the London overground is a case in point. London didnt have a single body taking that wider view

It's not needed for Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Birmingham. All cities really on the up. Manchester is often cited as one of the smartest entreprenurial cities in Europe. The council have done a fine job transforming what was a pretty deadbeat place into what it is now. What do they need a regional body for ? Sticking its nose in?

The north east is one region where a regional council would make sense. To some. Not the population though. They booted the idea out

More layers of government is more interia, more taxes, more waste and more useless civil servants on fat pensions. No thanks

Last point. By all accounts Gordon brown played a blinder. For all his many faults he is a big talent who should be seen more. Milliband was rated worse than Cameron by scots , which is saying something isn't it? I think this has put ed under a lot of pressure

Lastly I wonder if they swamping with "don't go" blathering made any difference. Personally I would have produced a balance sheet and p and l forecast and said, this is what you are heading for now take it or fcking leave it. Scots I know would relate well to that
 
If regional assemblies are created, it would obviously impact on the current arrangments for Councils etc, clive. In real terms, in might just be a case of re-branding, rather than adding a layer of fat. Agree that there is a risk of this, though.

The Scottish Parliament appears to have worked reasonably-well, in technical terms at least, and it would be harsh to say it's had a malignant impact on the way that parallel governing-bodies operate. There's reasons for not being too pessimistic about this kind of change.

Insofar as the West Lothian question is concerned, I see no reason why Scottish MP's couldn't self-exclude from participation in debates/legislation that affects England only. It would be an acknowledgement that the landscape has changed, would be an act of solidarity with English MP's who are sceptical about additional powers for Holyrood, and it wouldn't damage their own constituents' interest.
 
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Self exclusion would reduce their expenses claims of course, but if they were really msichievous, they could credit the move to Nigel Farage as he's written to them all asking them to do just that. I'm sure Cameron would be ever so grateful if they did that and acknowledged Farage's intervention :lol:
 
Not attempting to say or get you to say anything in particular, simmo, other than to clarify the relevance of the video.

Dont know about the majority, but the ones I saw video of were Scottish and seem to have confused Scottish Nationalists with the IRA.
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I'd say the ones in the clip were both Scottish and Northern Irish, going by the accents. I agree the 'Nationalist' remarks could easily be interpreted as Irish rather than Scottish.


As I said to those looking for an English independence vote - don't let Orangemen and idiots vote.
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Disappointing that you dismiss people who didn't want independence as idiots. Do you not believe any Orangemen voted for it? I reckon there's a chance some will despite their other 'loyalties'.

Edit: According to the news it is Glasgow based Orange Order groups, not NI. I'd be interested to see just how much of the vote was down to filthy bigoted cunts like these and their lesser bigoted brothers and sisters. Held back from independence by a bunch of ******* bigots. Welcome to the 17th century.
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I doubt the Orange vote swung it. If you can't win it with 73% of the 16-17yo vote you've no chance. By the next referendum they will have developed some brain cells and changed their vote.
 
Nicola Sturgeon needs to lock the 'in/ out' referendum into a re-run.

If Clive thinks the cost of a Scottish referendum is potentially wasteful (or hinted that he does anyway) he's going to blow gasket when Cameron calls his

The vote was probably lost in the credit crunch to be honest. Salmond had been lining up the success stories of Iceland and Ireland, and only had Norway left of his role models. Thow in the fact that RBS was crippled and that the burden would have fallen on the Scots to bail out their own banks, and they became very cautious all of a sudden

Banking drums, singing songs, chanting slogans, and watching re-runs of Australian millionaire anti-semites on horseback will only take you so far. To breach 50% you have to be able to demonstrate credibly that you can run a stronger economy. Under the circumstances, Yes did remarkably well. If Scotland can manage a few years of trouble free devo max they'll be in a position to 'go again' and this time I think they'll push through
 
I have a couple of questions regarding the post-Referendum landscape that maybe those of you more tuned-in than me could explain:

1) Is Devo-Max such a great deal for Scotland as it is made out to be? I can't help but figure that whilst the devolved Scottish Parliament will now be able to now increase taxes, it cannot lower them because they will still have to fund their share of Trident, new aircraft carrier etc. (Scotland Parliament will still have no say in defence matters). Will revenue from oil still flow to Westminster?
What about Welfare and Housing Benefit? Will Scotland now be able to abolish the bedroom tax if they want to? What about Health. Will Scotland now have to fund the NHS within the confines of Scotland?

2) Will Devo-Max have an impact on future by-elections and general elections in Scotland? I mean, will Scottish voters come to think that voting for Labour candidates is pointless if they will have lessened engagement with Westminster? Why would Scottish YES supporters of Labour now vote for a party that has campaigned vigorously against independence and a party which is committed to the centralisation in Westminster? Will YES supporters who previously voted Labour now transfer en-masse to SNP?

The above queries are probably naive, but they are genuine. I would like if anyone could enlighten me.


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Warbler said:
Nicola Sturgeon needs to lock the 'in/ out' referendum into a re-run.

If Clive thinks the cost of a Scottish referendum is potentially wasteful (or hinted that he does anyway) he's going to blow gasket when Cameron calls his

The vote was probably lost in the credit crunch to be honest. Salmond had been lining up the success stories of Iceland and Ireland, and only had Norway left of his role models. Thow in the fact that RBS was crippled and that the burden would have fallen on the Scots to bail out their own banks, and they became very cautious all of a sudden

Banking drums, singing songs, chanting slogans, and watching re-runs of Australian millionaire anti-semites on horseback will only take you so far. To breach 50% you have to be able to demonstrate credibly that you can run a stronger economy. Under the circumstances, Yes did remarkably well. If ruck Scotland can manage a few years of trouble free devo max they'll be in a position to 'go again' and this time I think they'll push through
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I don't think that about the cost in truth. Agree with a lot of that but I think they had a very talented leader and that is hard to replicate. He's always made difference. He was tough and smart but with sme grace and humour too. Maybe that's just the impression down here but for a nationalistic leader who is clearly advocating separation from the english then my feeling is that he is far from disliked down here. With Gerry Adams say, you always get the feeling he simply hates us but never with salmond. Different circumstances of course but it's a truth

I think it will be many years now and I believe that the whole issue of being a nation state will continue to fade . Nationalism just seems a bit naff. Economies are too interconnected these days and will be more so
 
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icebreaker said:
I have a couple of questions regarding the post-Referendum landscape that maybe those of you more tuned-in than me could explain:

1) Is Devo-Max such a great deal for Scotland as it is made out to be? I can't help but figure that whilst the devolved Scottish Parliament will now be able to now increase taxes, it cannot lower them because they will still have to fund their share of Trident, new aircraft carrier etc. (Scotland Parliament will still have no say in defence matters). Will revenue from oil still flow to Westminster?
What about Welfare and Housing Benefit? Will Scotland now be able to abolish the bedroom tax if they want to? What about Health. Will Scotland now have to fund the NHS within the confines of Scotland?

2) Will Devo-Max have an impact on future by-elections and general elections in Scotland? I mean, will Scottish voters come to think that voting for Labour candidates is pointless if they will have lessened engagement with Westminster? Why would Scottish YES supporters of Labour now vote for a party that has campaigned vigorously against independence and a party which is committed to the centralisation in Westminster? Will YES supporters who previously voted Labour now transfer en-masse to SNP?

The above queries are probably naive, but they are genuine. I would like if anyone could enlighten me.


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Good questions. Don't know too many answers but must remember that the Barnett formula, which is going to become an issue now, is a factor with tax and revenue

Could be said that labour were not very vigorous until brown got involved. Whether the voting will be replicated nationally is a bit hard to say I reckon. The key is whether it is thought that labour could win overall Westminster majority. I think he snp would struggle to do so..
 
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