Scottish Independence.....

But do they work harder than firemen or nurses? I understand the enterprise argument and accept if it was as high as I'd like it (in an ideal world I would tax any earnings over £100k a year at 90%) you would get a talent drain that would harm the economy. But I think that is partly down to this country. The Scandos can tax high because they know most people wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Whatever the inns and outs of that, like I said proportionally the rich already pay less tax than average or below average earners.
 
But do they work harder than firemen or nurses?
Click to expand...

Well im not sure that firemen are a good example.

The french are taxing high and they are having a real talent drain. especially to london.
 
That's the problem, a fairer tax system only works when the population being taxed aren't tossers.

Which is why it would never work in America. They are a very insular people so you aren't going to get a talent drain.
 
Last edited:
90% is fair?

Just because someone earns good money they are a "tosser"? A top surgeon perhaps? or someone who's created employment for stacks of people?

You really think that some one is a "tosser" for resenting that 9/10 of everything they earn over 100k is snatched away?

And if you went to 90% in the city say, it would quickly be shifting all operations elsewhere. And aside from the fact that it employs thousands and creates wealth thats spread across hundreds of thousands more, there would be an immediate collapse in tax revenues which would hammer everyone
 
Hi Euro,

For every additional €100 Harry earns, he has to pay around €55 in tax and insurance charges.

He has never screwed anybody over to get in the position he is in. Ireland has many problems, but it is an educational meritocracy (well relatively speaking). He got where he is from hard work and his brains.

Now, here is the quandry he is in at the moment. He works for a US-owned corporation, and his boss has made it very clear that he could work on a number of transactions that would earn him a lot of money in additional pay and bonuses.

However, this would involve longer hours, travel away from his family and stress.

The benefits are big, but when you take away around 55%, is it worth the hassle? His boss has also made it very clear that it is fine to keep going as is.

Higher rates of tax are a disincentive to work. The result is that the exchequer is losing out on income because of overly punitive margnial tax rates for high earners.
 
Last edited:
Not fair no. But the whole of the Western world is geared up to help rich people get richer and tolerate the poor, always has been. Know your place and don't rock the boat. Council tax, roadworks everywhere, road tax, the cost of petrol etc etc.

You should read some Noam Chomsky Clive. Very enlightening.
 
Salmond is a cretin.....him and the rest of his single-agenda coterie.

There is unanimous consensus amongst the senior Treasury civil servant, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and the Shadow Chanceller, that a currency-union is not going to happen.

The Fat Man says a currency-union will happen......apparently because he says so.

He claims that the Scots have as much right to the Pound Sterling as the rest of the UK......but this argument does not apply to Oil & Gas, which apparently belongs to Scotland alone.

The Head of the European Commission says Scotland joining the EU would be 'difficult if not impossible'.

The Fat Man says it's not going to be a problem.

He parades a figure of £500m in extra taxes that will be imposed on UK business after Independence, and has the gall to call it the 'George Tax' - despite it requiring Indepdnence for it ever to be invoked - and then steadfastly refuses to answer the question around what the financial impact would be on Scottish business.

He uses the 'bullying' excuse in the hope that this will cause such an affront, that Scots will vote Yes. This position seems to be based on a stereotype aka that the Scots will do the opposite of what the English want, through sheer bloody-mindedness.

I have news for him. We're not quite as daft as he hopes, and people's eyes are being widened as to the yawning hole in the Independence proposition

He is a c*ocksucker politican cnut of the highest order, prepared to say anything in pursuit of a vanity exercise. He and the rest of his second-rate, jumped-up-local-Councillers, twats can go fu*ck themselves with a communal cold stone.
 
Last edited:
Euronymous said:
Not fair no. But the whole of the Western world is geared up to help rich people get richer and tolerate the poor, always has been. Know your place and don't rock the boat. Council tax, roadworks everywhere, road tax, the cost of petrol etc etc.

You should read some Noam Chomsky Clive. Very enlightening.
Click to expand...

Just because there is road tax, high petrol costs, etc. doesn't mean that there is an excuse for a sub-optimal tax system.
 
I'd like a proportionally fairer system, I don't see anything wrong with that. Council Tax and NI contributions cripple low earners. High earners barely notice them.
 
Harsh words Grassy:)...if I were a betting man I`d bet a lorra money that the Scots would keep the pound should they vote Yes, despite the words of the great and good you quote. Self interest will dictate. Not that I think there`ll be a Yes vote.

Oh, the average Civil Service pension, if you exclude the very high earners, is about £4,200....not exactly "fat" I would suggest.
 
arsh words Grassy...if I were a betting man I`d bet a lorra money that the Scots would keep the pound should they vote Yes, despite the words of the great and good you quote. Self interest will dictate. Not that I think there`ll be a Yes vote.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

You think its their call? Because there is no way the rest of the uk wants the fiscal responsibility for their economy.
 
Desperate Dan said:
Harsh words Grassy:)...if I were a betting man I`d bet a lorra money that the Scots would keep the pound should they vote Yes, despite the words of the great and good you quote. Self interest will dictate. Not that I think there`ll be a Yes vote.

Oh, the average Civil Service pension, if you exclude the very high earners, is about £4,200....not exactly "fat" I would suggest.
Click to expand...

Really? So at 2/3 annual salary after a career, civil servants earn on average £6300 pa then?
 
clivex said:
So harry shouldnt maximise his talent?

An given that we are a service economy (and pretty damn good at it too) that relies on intelligence and talent, thats ok?
Click to expand...

Possibly. I dunno, I'm probably biased having spent 11 years working for Virgin and five years in the civil service. Talent wasn't really a factor anywhere in those enviromments. How far you got depended on your networking and arse licking skills. I suppose in a well run, profitable company this might be different.
 
in fairness i can see where your coming from.

Its by no means a straight line and in many SME's ive seen some extraoridinarily rubbish people trousering salaries for sod all. But its more likely to come out in the wash eventually in that environment
 
clivex said:
Really? So at 2/3 annual salary after a career, civil servants earn on average £6300 pa then?
Click to expand...

Clive...you should get your facts right. And, err, the number of years in the pension scheme is a factor. Did you not know that? I did over 40 years in the CS and the pension was 1/2, not 2/3. Perhaps you should use google before coming out with misleading, and rather silly, statements.
 
Thats a good pension for doing nothing for 40 years but is this true?


sing our example therefore, a civil servant on £23,000 over 40 years would be due an annual pension of £11,500 (23,000x40x1/80th). To purchase an annuity of this value would therefore require £396,552 (11,500/0.029).

On top of this, civil servants receive a lump sum to the value of three times their pension on retirement.
Click to expand...

Also isnt it half final salary but not average salary?
 
Last edited:
Euronymous said:
But do they work harder than firemen or nurses? I understand the enterprise argument and accept if it was as high as I'd like it (in an ideal world I would tax any earnings over £100k a year at 90%) you would get a talent drain that would harm the economy. But I think that is partly down to this country. The Scandos can tax high because they know most people wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Whatever the inns and outs of that, like I said proportionally the rich already pay less tax than average or below average earners.
Click to expand...

Nurses I know are off work all the time on the sick
 
Grass

Even if i was a voter for independence i would be pretty shocked at the arrogance and sheer naivety of the SNP leaders. Playing on the sometime paranoia that lurks with some north of the border is irresponsible too.

Shoddy politics.
 
clivex said:
Grass

Even if i was a voter for independence i would be pretty shocked at the arrogance and sheer naivety of the SNP leaders. Playing on the sometime paranoia that lurks with some north of the border is irresponsible too.

Shoddy politics.
Click to expand...

I hear they got a brief poll-bounce on the back of the Fat Man and Knick-Knack's accusations of bullying.

This is entirely in keeping with the Scottish pysche, which has an inherent distaste for what is "unfair". This is especially potent, when painted in a landscape of "English oppression".....what with you'se cnuts having the jack-boot on our throats for centuries n'that, ken?

Anyway, what the Fat Man, Knick-Knack and all of their ilk forget, is that this demonstrable indignation will shortly give-way to a stoic-pragmatism; a Scottish character trait which came about as a result of you'se cnuts having your jack-boots across our throats for centuries n'that, ken?

Scots will eventually look beyond this facade, and instead focus on the cold, hard, facts. Which is where the Yes campaign will fall flat on its stupid, doughy, arse.....mainly because the 'facts' are all stacked against their argument, and there are enough sensible, grown-ups in this country, to see right through them.

Jerry-mandering the eligible constituency to include 16yos was an attempt to get uninformed votes for the Yes campaign, and I cosider it to be an affront to democracy. My youngest lad isn't far short of 16yo, and I wouldn't let him pick his fu*cking nose, let alone a nations fate.

For the sake of balance, I should point-out that I consider Scottish MSP's of all stripes (Tory, Labour, LibDem, Green, whatever) to be a shower of useless ba*stards. They couldn't run a bath. :cool:
 
Last edited:
There was an article in lst weeks observer by a Scottish writer whining on that "I was all for the union but now you are telling us what's what blah blah"

It was embarrassing. Only response i could think of was "grow up"

Reminded me of when Celtic were politely told that hey couldn't join the premiership. They threatened to sue. Yes sue the epl

Iwas like... What????
 
Back
Top