Scottish Independence.....

Seems as though HMG are going to try 'bribery' with the publication of an alternative package subsequent to a 'No' vote.

I would tell them something else - vote 'NO' or F..K off and appreciate how the 'Yes' campaign have stitched you up.

My reading of the economics of 'uk-less-scottish numpties' is that we, south of the border, may end up better off.

MR2
 
I suspect the latest 'white light', oh look what we've suddenly decided we could have done for you all along moment, could backfire spectacularly.

It completely undermines the BG campaign and just makes London look duplicitous, untrsutworthy, and keeping something back all the time for themselves (which they are of course). It's a panicky reaction and a tactical error as it's going to play right in to the hands of Salmond allowing him to say 'told you so' this is what these people are all about and this is why we're better people than they. Trust honest Alex etc
 
I still can't believe this is happening. Even if it's a "No" Scotland should hang it's head in shame for even doing a referendum.
 
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Dont see what the fuss is about if Scotland goes independent , plenty other countries have separated from English rule.
Tories only have one seat up here so not exactly popular , Labour need the Scottish vote to win UK election and lib dems are a joke so what's the alternative
 
There is a third camp which is driven by comments such as the above

I am not a member but its the "whydontyoujustfuckoffoutofit" camp. Believe me there are plenty here who subscribe to that

"Ruled by england" ?

How stupid is that

1. You have substantial devolution. No other region does to the same extent (they sensibly believe that more civil servants are a waste of space)

2. You are overrepresented in parliament.

3. You can vote on purely english matters (an absolute disgrace IMO)

4. There have been plenty of scottish leaders in recent times.Including one fat alcoholic who "despised the english"

5. The english were "ruled" by a government that would not have been elected each time without the scottish representation

6. Wasted government Spending per head is highest by far for scotland

Monty is right. Last point isnt mentioned much is it? Furthermore, england can benefit from the flight of capital and business once the muddle over the currency drags on (no way will you be using the pound), EU membership issues and of course a budget that will be all over the place.

I believe we should stay as one but whingers and whiny teenagers are never welcome in any context
 
Warbler said:
I suspect the latest 'white light', oh look what we've suddenly decided we could have done for you all along moment, could backfire spectacularly.

It completely undermines the BG campaign and just makes London look duplicitous, untrsutworthy, and keeping something back all the time for themselves (which they are of course). It's a panicky reaction and a tactical error as it's going to play right in to the hands of Salmond allowing him to say 'told you so' this is what these people are all about and this is why we're better people than they. Trust honest Alex etc
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Yes i agree. It should be take it or leave it.
 
clivex said:
Yes i agree. It should be take it or leave it.
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It's only going to reinforce Salmond's convinction that Scotland can use Sterling and more importantly make him look credible in saying told you so

To paraphrase Tommy Sheridan

One opinion poll has gotten us devo max. Imagine what we could get with two!

The other person who should be rubbing Cameron's nose in this is UKIP. Are we seriously being asked to believe that Cameron is going renegotiate Lisbon when a yougov poll prompts into completely changing the 'deal for Scotland' like that.

I've said all along he's out of his depth on foreign policy both in terms of his judgement and his tactics, he's actually little short of being embarrasment to the country. Hell, even the monarch would do a better job than our elected representatives
 
Hes a panic merchant.

No stupid but essentially a slightly lazy thinking lightweight without any real vision or clear principles. When he tries to lead he bungles and when he should lead he reacts impulsively

Theres a lot of talk that he will have to go if the union breaks up. Probably rightly so. in fact the whole thing could revolve around his agreement to drop the voting age to 8, or whatever it was.
 
The break up will be a real waste of time strain on resources. They are heading for catastrophy if they really believe Salmonds promises, which have been ripped apart in the economic literate press for weeks now (we will leave the economic flat earther media out of this). Could be some bitter recriminations. Hes promising massive social spending and low taxes. Even a Guardian reader might be able to work out that doesnt work. He should be promising bailouts and massive unemployment

Another aspect is that the scottish economy is severely weighted away from enterprise. I recall that it has the smallest proportion of SMEs in the uk by quite a margin. It is an economy dangerously loaded to a small number of sectors of which finance is one that is certainly going to be twitchy.

I do believe that EU membership should be attainable. With negative growth, bloated public sector and clueless economic management, the nation would be very much at home
 
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What Salmond seems to have done is whip up a generation of anti englishness amongst a young cohort in the central belt, but this probably isn't too surprising. It's really the down side of nationalism and has appeared in all sorts of countries with different bogeymen being made the scapegoat throughout history. The other dynamic in the constitutency of voters however is those who frame their antagonism through the period 1979 - 97, and one leader in particular. Having said that, there can be little doubt that Scotland aspires to a radically different society with different values to those of unbridled aggressive and acquisitive capitalist gain. If they want to achieve their utopia (and I wish them luck) I think they can, but they need to enter into the pursuit of this dream in the knowledge that it'll cost them a lot more money than Salmond is pretending it will. Their independence comes at a cost, and so long as they're trying to bind themselves to Europe, there has to be a question mark of how independent they really are anyway - ask Greece or any other country that has had its domestic budgets set by the troika over the last 5 years. They're swapping one over arching government for another, and its this which makes the Norwegian thing a bit tenuous as they aren't EU members of course (Salmond used to invoke Iceland and Ireland incidentally as successful small states he wanted to copy)

It's mildly amusing again and I'm sure observes the laws of unintended consequence but should Scotland vote Yes on the 18th, Mrs Finchley will have done more than most to prepare the ground that has allowed the SNP to prosper. Would there have been an SNP surge in the decades after without the Thatch? It's really a cosnequence from the same camp that she is the true architect of New Labour as well.

I'm slightly surprised that the BT campaign hasn't made more of an attempt to target Mary Doll actually. President elect Nicola Sturgeon anyone? I'm sure she's been let off lightly

Speaking to someone today who employs about 50-100 people in an IT business who has been making plans to come south. North Yorkshire is their preferred destination at this stage
 
Too easy to blame thatcher I think. I also believe this supposed aspiring to a different society is a load of guff. They will soon unaspire when there's a 60% basic tax rate. To my mind that has always been a bit of rhetoric to make out they are"different". Scots down here I know (and maybe it's why they are down here) are eye wateringly free market right wing.

The relocation of businesses is probably the most underplayed issue so far. One thing any business hates is uncertainty. One thing any busniness person north of the border will be certain of is that the yes campaigns figures and promises are laughable and they know full well that issues over currency and eu could be dangerous

Who would sign a new lease on premises in these circumstances?
 
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He's spot on

As usual . A really top economist. I've read a good few of his books and columns
 
I suspect the reaction of the markets to this YES lead in one poll is the last thing Salmond wanted - a lot of Scots are likely to be thinking if this happens to the value of Scottish businesses after one opinion poll what might independence bring ?
 
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Spent the weekend visiting people in Glasgow. Quite surprised with the energy differential, Yes V No. Huge visual and audible YES presence in streets, conversations. No is not anywhere to be seen.

Still think there is a silent majority for NO - but only about 51/49.
 
Warbler said:
Speaking to someone today who employs about 50-100 people in an IT business who has been making plans to come south. North Yorkshire is their preferred destination at this stage
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Andrew's ok then? I thought he'd disappeared of the face of the earth. Not seen or heard anything from him for ages, and not seen him post on any of the regular forums.
 
TNS poll has 39% No, 38% Yes and a whopping 23% Don't Knows, which maybe helps put the recent YouGov poll in context. Looks like going to the wire though.
 
Maruco said:
Andrew's ok then? I thought he'd disappeared of the face of the earth. Not seen or heard anything from him for ages, and not seen him post on any of the regular forums.
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God forbid that anyone who works for him reads this, but he's otherwise fine. Got to go up to Edinburgh to meet him back end of the month and sort some Canucks out who are playing Gleneagles and Gullane

I think he fell out with racing, and the fell back in with it. I went the other way and am currently out of love with it, but suspect I'm on the verge of being dragged back into it
 
Well the three desperados paid a state visit to Scotland today

Cameron (doubtless campaigning on the strength of his name) I mean honestly - does he not think it's worn a little bit thin with his "when you've got a name like mine" by now

Clegg dipped his toe in as far as Selkirk and then scuttled back

Whereas Miliband was practising for next year in some clean image new town like Cumbernauld whilst ducking out of a showdown with Mary Doll

I felt a serious pang of sympathy with yes campaign today though as John Prescott was wobbling around Rutherglen with words 'Better Together' stapled to the back of his hand. Jaysus, if that's the best we can send out after 300 years then surely the Scots have a point. The union is broken.

I just can't escape from the idea that some dilatory strategist has thought to themselves that Prescott brokered an agreement between Tony (English) and Gordon (Scottish) and therefore he could work the magic. Oh, and he saved John Smith over OMOV too, the guy has the midas touch

Prescott for his part went a bit off message. In the first case he told the Scots this was an important decision and shouldn't be governed by short termism (the Scots have been having this debate for well over a year Prescott, so thankyou for your contribution but please read faster if you want to catch up with where it's at). Then he produced his coup de grace, a UK united football team which could beat the Germans! God Steuth is that the best he can come up with. Or has he made the mistake of thinking people in Rutherglen are thick working class tribal and this is all they're interested in. So the essence of the independence debate has been reduced to whether or not we want to beat the Germans

Just for the record you fat thick git, a UK united football team would feature 10 shite Englishmen, plus Gareth Bale, and they'd still lose
 
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