Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced

Possibly Gal, but then he doesn't really have to go much further than seven furlongs, does he? I'm not even convinced Set Sail would be able to pick up the pace a less than four out!

Whatever way it pans out, I'm sure they'll ensure a strong gallop from the off.
 
I wouldn't take anything for granted on that. The most likely way to get Sea The Stars beaten is in a completely false run race. They could do this by restraining the front runners completely or by setting them off at 4 furlong pace, the former possibly being the better tactic as it might make GBS a contender.

Any pace that suits Mastercraftsman will suit Sea The Stars just as well (and Tartan Bearer) with an obvious result. When the pace suits nobody the result becomes less obvious.
 
they used two pacemakers in the Derby - to set a crawl..so I can't see how having two means anything

if AOB sets a fast pace he may as well withdraw MCM now..the faster they go..the further STS wins

looks a no brainer to me..if they want MCM to win it has to be a test of speed not stamina
 
If they wanted a slow pace, wouldn't they be better off pulling the two pacemakers out altogether?
 
if he did that he loses "control" of the race - he likes control..makes him fell better..nothing left to chance

you could have said the same about the derby
 
Galileo said:
Disappointing to see what is effectively a three runner race....surely there are some other 1m2f horses that could be running in this.
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I hope the same journos that have been taking cheap shots at O'Brien and Jim Bolger for the last couple of seasons will have the balls to come out and criticise the trainers closer to home who have managed to rustle up exactly 1 runner between them for one of the marquee races of the season. Pathetic.
 
I just dont know what to say at that field, Godolphin should have entered Urban Poet.
 
On my figures, STS is 11lbs clear - that's about 5½ lengths. If he wins by any less, I'll probably be disappointed yet they surely won't want to leave the Irish Champion stakes behind here. I reckon they'll try and win cosily, giving the horse as easy a race as possible.
 
There's 48k in prize money for 4th and 5th so I guess for that reason alone it's worth running them.
 
Desert Orchid said:
On my figures, STS is 11lbs clear - that's about 5½ lengths. If he wins by any less, I'll probably be disappointed yet they surely won't want to leave the Irish Champion stakes behind here. I reckon they'll try and win cosily, giving the horse as easy a race as possible.
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I think Mastercraftsman is capable of considerably better than his rating suggests - he just had not had the opportunity (i.e ideal conditions) to prove it yet in the way Sea The Stars has had at Sandown.
 
Desert Orchid said:
What was not ideal about the SJP, Gal?
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Fast ground over a mile? He needs a real test over a mile (like in the Irish 2000) and in my opinion he will be getting his conditions on Tuesday. Now just because he is getting his conditions it does not mean that he will be up to beating Sea The Stars - but I think the 11 pound difference will not be borne out come Tuesday. I think York is probably made for him as well....really looking forward to Murtagh kicking him on and letting him role with Kinane following in his slip stream.

Mastercraftsman reminds me of Giants Causeway, who ran in the low 120s over a mile early in his career but turned into a near 130 horse when stepping up to ten furlongs.
 
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I could imagine MCM grinding a horse rated one or two pounds better into submission but STS is different class. Once he shoots past him, MCM won't have the time or the breath to recover.
 
I only have MCM on 124. I have his SJP as 7lbs better than his Irish 2000G, which was almost as bad a race as the Irish Oaks.
 
What rating did you have Rip Van Winkle on before his huge figure in the Eclipse?

Mastercraftsman can be two things for me....a slow one (relatively speaking) or a horse that has been clearly crying out for a greater test of stamina.

Considering he won (and beat two subsequent Group 1 winners) at two over six furlongs - he surely is not just a slow or paceless grinding horse that he has looked on occasions. Throw in the fact that by far his most impressive performance this season (or of his career) came when there was a serious emphasis on stamina over a mile trip then I think there is every reason to expect a significant improvement on Tuesday now that he gets 10 furlongs.

I would add, I do think and expect Sea The Stars to win - he is clearly exceptional - but I think Mastercraftsman can bustle him up much in the same way Rip Van Winkle did if not a little harder still.
 
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Tartan Bearer now ruled out. Field down to 4 including 2 pacemakers.

I don't know whether this is farcical or a fascinating match race.
 
In a way it would now be interesting to see the pacemakers removed and make it a head to head.
 
bizarre... in effect a Group 1 match race in which one of them has a bit of help from his stablemates.

If O’Brien had entered a couple of dozen they could have formed a blockade around STS!

 
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