Sprinter Sacre: should he run at further distances?

Flagship uberalles said:
He has returned 3 times since to run at Cheltenham (albeit chasing - I can't be bothered to look to see if they were run on old / new course).

Given that he has won these 3 races by a total of 40 lengths and two of them were championship events, I would find it very hard to believe he was beaten that day simply by a lack of stamina.
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And I can't be bothered to explain again the different stamina requirements of chases and hurdles.

Rory
While there's no evidence that Sprinter Sacre won't stay 2.5m at the top level, there's equally no evidence that he will, and there'll be few easy races with such as Flemenstar and Cue Card waiting to greet him.
 
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reet hard said:
And I can't be bothered to explain again the different stamina requirements of chases and hurdles.

Rory
While there's no evidence that Sprinter Sacre won't stay 2.5m at the top level, there's equally no evidence that he will, and there'll be few easy races with such as Flemenstar and Cue Card waiting to greet him.
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That's my point, though. If, like Mr and Mrs Mould, you are happy to pour millions into your hobby with no other aim than to win the top races (rather than maximise profit), it seems a terrible shame to avoid Cue Card, who is a cracking horse, but not in the same bracket as Sprinter Sacre. It might be flirting with the possibility of defeat to do so, but is that something to recoil from when you have such a talent at your disposal?
 
Flagship uberalles said:
He has returned 3 times since to run at Cheltenham (albeit chasing - I can't be bothered to look to see if they were run on old / new course).

Given that he has won these 3 races by a total of 40 lengths and two of them were championship events, I would find it very hard to believe he was beaten that day simply by a lack of stamina.
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A P McCoy or AIYYYYYYPEEEEEEE if you're reading this in the style of Mick Fitzgerald, seems to have the knack of getting great horses beat.

Denman, aka Tank. 1/6 for the Aon. Let's get AP! BOOM!! falls off three out.

Kauto Star, steeplechasing legend. Unbeatable in King George VI Chases, especially when they are run at Kempton in December. 4/7 for attempted 5th win. Let's get AP! BOOM!! never goes a yard and finishes a bollocksed 3rd.

Best Mate, he thinks he is Arkle. Out to prove greatness in King George VI Chase. Let's get AP! BOOM!! gets outspeeded by a veteran before winning three Gold Cups and a King George.

Sprinter Sacre , two mile legend. Goes for the Supreme Novices Hurdle. Let's get AP! BOOM!! hits the front too soon and smashes the last hurdle into the ground before fading and transforming into a chaser from the gods.

Big Buck's must be mighty indeed!
 
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rorydelargy said:
That's my point, though. If, like Mr and Mrs Mould, you are happy to pour millions into your hobby with no other aim than to win the top races (rather than maximise profit), it seems a terrible shame to avoid Cue Card, who is a cracking horse, but not in the same bracket as Sprinter Sacre. It might be flirting with the possibility of defeat to do so, but is that something to recoil from when you have such a talent at your disposal?
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Agree with pretty-much everything you've said, Rory - including the genitals bit. :whistle:

Lets have the Aeroplane back in the Old Roan, giving 20lbs all round and see how he gets on. The very fact connections would be prepared to run him in a handicap would enhance his reputation regardless of whether he wins or loses.*


* Losing = no chance.
 
I've next to no doubt Sprinter Sacre would get the trip in the Melling Chase, which remains the most prestigious 20f chase, so how about it connections?

Having won over 2m on heavy at stiff Cheltenham SS should have little trouble over further at sharp Aintree on what is likely to be half-decent ground

Personally I'd rather he try that first before thoughts about the King George are entertained. Plenty of time, he's only 7
 
John Oxx gave what I consider the best thought out answer re campaigning top class horses re See The Stars.
He said that top class horses will try beyond all others to win their races;they give their all. In such cases it is trainers' duty to make sure all conditions are in the horses favour as it would be an injustice to the horse to race it on other than optimum conditions.
Nicky Henderson has run more than his share of non stayers in King George chase through the years; he need not run one more.
 
I've next to no doubt Sprinter Sacre would get the trip in the Melling Chase, which remains the most prestigious 20f chase, so how about it connections?
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I'd much rather see him take on Flemenstar at Punchestown. I'm pretty sure he'll win but it should be quite a spectacle over the early fences.
 
Completely agree. The negative with Frankel was he never raced away from Britain. I'd love to see SS run in Ireland.
 
If Simonsig won the Arkle despite being ill - it may not be such a dreadful affair after all .
 
Grey said:
I'd much rather see him take on Flemenstar at Punchestown. I'm pretty sure he'll win but it should be quite a spectacle over the early fences.
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Flemenstar is coming over for the Melling I thought; to face off against Cue Card.
 
Drone said:
I've next to no doubt Sprinter Sacre would get the trip in the Melling Chase, which remains the most prestigious 20f chase, so how about it connections?

Having won over 2m on heavy at stiff Cheltenham SS should have little trouble over further at sharp Aintree on what is likely to be half-decent ground

Personally I'd rather he try that first before thoughts about the King George are entertained. Plenty of time, he's only 7
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No doubt, that's what connections of such as Well Chief and Master Minded thought too, Drone.
Like a good many speed horses before him, Sprinter Sacre's won the bulk of his races well before stamina became an issue, and showed signs of possible frailties in both the Supreme and his Ascot Bumper. Still convinced that's what cost MTOY his finest hour, too, despite others questioning his resolution, and/or dislike of the Cheltenham hill.
If SS were mine, he wouldn't go further than 2m until, at least, he showed that some of that speed was waning,.
 
Thanks for all these very informative responses for someone who still has loads to learn but would love to know more.

Do you think the racing public are "owed" in any way when it comes once-in-generation horses such as SS? Do Henderson and the owner owe us the chance to see this fantastic horse over a longer distance?
 
I don't think it's ever a case of owing anything - it's their horse and they can make whatever decisions they want. I just think it would be a terrible shame not to explore the possibility that he can be a champion at multiple distances against the best around.
 
Flagship uberalles said:
I don't think it's ever a case of owing anything - it's their horse and they can make whatever decisions they want. I just think it would be a terrible shame not to explore the possibility that he can be a champion at multiple distances against the best around.
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But once a horse becomes so revered and appreciated, do you not think connections should give the public a bit of what they want. We would never wish harm upon the horse, of course, but racecourses are packed out, tv audiences increase because their horse is running. We're at the stage now where our enjoyment is purely aesthetic, it's no longer derived via our pocket. The horse now earns connections "easy" money, and next season might be the time to extend Sprinter Sacre's scope for the good of the sport. I know connections are not obliged to do this, but the sport is all the better when connections do extend their horses and provide them with greater challenges.
 
I agree Len

I tend towards that view but most of the "retire them!" miserablists on here wont agree

It is the publics interest that makes the sport what it is. Owners and old school trainers may think otherwise but basically they are thick if they believe the sport would mean anything at all played out in front of... no one

All owners are different but if you have more money than you can ever hope to spend then you should take some pleasure from giving something back. The great tradition of philanthropy in the USA is the benchmark. Billionaire owners rushing stars off to stud (Sea the stars a prime example) is pretty unseemly IMO, but amazing how many defend it

If had a billion and a once in a lifetime horse i would genuinely say that i would race the horse to the max and ensure that the sport and its followers get the absolute best from his talents. Why would i need another £100m anyway? What the **** for?

And with a jumper i would also like to think that ive been bloody lucky and lets have some sport (ratherr than easy strolls). However i would not perhaps run a bad jumper over fences for the sake of it (especially if they are very attuned to hurdles) and i would never run a horse in the national.
 
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edgt said:
John Oxx gave what I consider the best thought out answer re campaigning top class horses re See The Stars.
He said that top class horses will try beyond all others to win their races;they give their all. In such cases it is trainers' duty to make sure all conditions are in the horses favour as it would be an injustice to the horse to race it on other than optimum conditions.
Nicky Henderson has run more than his share of non stayers in King George chase through the years; he need not run one more.
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Sea the Stars best performance in most people's opinion came in the Arc while Frankel's Juddmonte win takes a lot of beating so what does optimum conditions mean? easy pickings as possible and keep the cash coming in is what it means.

Racing is a business and good trainers run it as such. over 25% of the prize money that Nicky brought in came from Sprinter Sacre this last season so don't kid yourself about the trip Sprinter would get further standing on his head
 
Although I prefer to see horses race as 3yo's, I am pretty happy with the racing they gave Sea the Stars.

Three times as a 2yo

Then six group 1 races as a 3yo:

Guineas, Derby, Eclipse, Juddmonte, Irish Champ, Arc

We saw him at 7f, 1m, 1m2f and 1m4f. We saw him on ground ranging from soft/heavy all the way up to good to firm. We saw him go left-handed and right-handed. We saw him on sharp tracks, we saw him on galloping tracks, stiff tracks.

I enjoyed his racing career, and felt satisfied when he went off to stud.
 
Grasshopper said:
Flemenstar is a non-stayer at 2-miles against the Aeroplane. :lol:
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which is actually true..SE "looked" like a non stayer also..just took on that one run

not sure why its deemd that funny..i find it laughable that people use the term "staying" in the most pointless way in 98% of the cases.."Flemenstar doesn't stay"..a pointless statement unless used in the context of the opposition he faces.

Long Run doesn't stay against certain oppo but does against others. He "stays" 10 miles in reality..but against what?
 
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