St James Palace

Charlie, Rory is right in that the type of bets I tend to have online shouldn't really be knocked back. I know precisely what are account closers, and I don't bet like that. I've never arbed in my life (I have some dignity!!!), I don't back Pricewise horses nor Rix, Osiris or any of those other tossy tipping line selections. I don't often back snide each way, especially not multiples, and if I do it's not generally online for the same reasons stated! Admittedly in the past I have backed very warm selections, but before anyone else has, so for that reason alone and for the types of stakes I ask for (no more than £100 ew on most) it would have been worth the while of the firms to have taken my bet, being first in, then used me as a marker.

Besides which, I'm fed up with being knocked back when I ask to back big priced horses in Festival races to small stakes. Would you believe Sid James refused to lay me any more than a tenner each way on a 33/1 shot in the Ryanair Chase this year? I asked for £30 ew, not £300 ew!! Any bookmaker worth their salt would take those bets all day and every day, not least when they are backed on personal opinion, rather than following others lemming sty-lee.

It is worth pointing out that I can hardly get a penny on anything online (or on the phone) nowadays bar with one or two firms. Never have Victor Chandler knocked me back, and if Blue Square have it's been once, or twice, most likely on a snide ew! Despite all that is said about Blue Square, I've always found them pretty good. However pretty much any other firm you care to name who bets online have either shut my accounts (or as good as, not laying a bet of more than pennies - hello Sid James! It's no good claiming you don't shut accounts when instead you bosh them to the point whereby you can't get more than £4 on!!) or regularly knock me back to amounts of around a tenner or less.
 
Originally posted by gus@Jun 11 2008, 08:05 PM
I dream of being knocked back.

Every bookie I know is happy to take my bets.

Says it all, really.
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Every bookie i use is happy to take mine too, as they have no idea whether i win or lose, whereas, it looks like in SL's case some have probably gleamed from her betting records that it is not in their best interests to lay her bets, as she wins and they lose

Restrict her, close her down, she is no good to our business


I'd do exactly same if i were a bookie and so would everyone else with any idea of running a bookmaking business


Corals, Laddies etc don't stay in business and make millions in profit because they allow the winners to carry on winning guys
 
Originally posted by Charlie D@Jun 11 2008, 09:29 PM



Corals, Laddies etc don't stay in business and make millions in profit because they allow the winners to carry on winning guys
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But don`t the big three keep a few shrewdies/winners accounts live for information/odds purposes or is that a big fat myth?
 
I am conscious that I am speaking in part to an audience much more knowledgeable about such things than me... but surely if you knew you had a winning/shrewd/whatever punter on your hands you would lay them bets so they kept their business with you.

Then just offset your liabilities with the rest of your book and other firms to limit your exposure.

If you trust their ability to win consistently to the extent that you would have considered not taking their bets, then surely you can use that info to shape your own book for maximum profitability from the rest of your punters?

EDIT - or like Euro has just said is that a myth?
 
Ah, well that's where you're not quite correct, Charlie. What a clever bookmaker does with punters who are winning on small stakes is to lay them, then use that punter as a marker. So, they want £30 ew on a 33/1 shot and their strike rate is good? Lay them that £30 ew, cut the price then back it for the firm for £300 ew. Bingo!

In fact, what the very clever firms do is not only mark out these punters but do their utmost to keep them onside - even offer to match the best odds offered by rival firms whilst laying their bet. Some are even given telephone numbers so they can get straight through to the trading desk to talk to the traders directly - it pays not to underestimate how useful this can be to any firm. Every firm has their shite hot punters that if they have only a pony each way on a horse, it is worth taking notice of. It's all about accurate and up to date customer analysis.
 
Didn't see either Euro's or Betsmate's posts as I was typing my own - needless to say they are spot on. The idea that bookmakers shut down ALL winning accounts is an utter myth. The intelligent firms use the decent winning accounts as markers for themselves.

It is the punters who mark themselves out as arbers/pricewise punters/wanky tipping line punters/regular snide each way punters or otherwise brainless lemmings that follow others leads that get their accounts hammered the most.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 11 2008, 09:04 PM
Didn't see either Euro's or Betsmate's posts as I was typing my own - needless to say they are spot on. The idea that bookmakers shut down ALL winning accounts is an utter myth. The intelligent firms use the decent winning accounts as markers for themselves.
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Just shows what a shower of sh1te bookmakers are don't it, they restrict some, but not others

Seems your not one of the chosen at a few SL
 
In fairness, there are a lot of bollocks firms out there!! I fully recognise that Bet£3.65 do indeed use me as a marker (every time I back a horse with them they cut it by TWO price changes - try me, give me something to back & I'll prove it!!!) but they'll only lay me a tenner at a time, even on Group Ones, which is a fecking insult. Just goes to show they're a shower of tossers, really!!

I'm not pretending to be a shite hot punter, but, as can be seen by my inability to get on, I am winning. When you have a punter who bets small on large priced each way shots, and much larger on short priced horses they fancy, that should be manna from heaven for a firm with any brains. From my point of view the most intelligent firms are probably VC and Blue Square!!! Mind you Corals have laid me a bet last time I asked too - one which they would more than likely have knocked back in the past!
 
Exactly Charlie ~ she's desperately annoying at times but they're a bunch of eejits for knocking her back for spite. I'd lay her bets, but luckily I don't have to :P
 
It's the inconsistency that annoys me. Had £300 on a 3-1 shot with Hills yesterday (touched 11.5 on the machine before running like a 1000-1 shot) but they'd only let me have £50 on a 8-1 poke today (asked for £120 win).
 
Really good thread. It does amaze me how good some shop punters have it. Lots of shops in an area and they are literally begging for your business. You can sometimes beat or at least match the best price online. Extra places etc. Easy to get on if your betting around £100-£200 mark. Problem is when you work for a living you rarely get the time and we are all forced to bet online. I really miss getting on in the shops since I moved town and only have access to a Paddy Power. I started betting on the golf online and got knocked back by a few smaller phone account firms. I'm not surprised because i was only backing the ones that were moving in and probably going to be tipped up by the Sporting life Tuesday evening or on the post Wednesday.

Its a no win situation. You bet on Betfair than you lose early prices each way etc. You have 1-15 accounts than your moving money around constantly (figure on a screen will never beat wads of cash) which is no good unless you have plenty in the bank and in SL case you cant get on anyway.
 
I was really taken with Jupiter Pluvius at The Curragh when I saw him. As an individual, he is a big powerful and scopey colt who looked in need of the run when running respectably at The Curragh. Be interesting to see if he runs and what price he’ll be.
 
Originally posted by Mounty@Jun 12 2008, 02:49 AM
It's the inconsistency that annoys me. Had £300 on a 3-1 shot with Hills yesterday (touched 11.5 on the machine before running like a 1000-1 shot) but they'd only let me have £50 on a 8-1 poke today (asked for £120 win).
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I never bet big and I never bet by phone so I've no experience of this kind of thing -
What happens if you are knocked back by phone and then try putting on a bet online?
I realise that's not always feasible eg if you are at work or out and about, but has anyone tried it?
 
Originally posted by Headstrong@Jun 12 2008, 11:29 AM

I never bet big and I never bet by phone so I've no experience of this kind of thing -
What happens if you are knocked back by phone and then try putting on a bet online?
I realise that's not always feasible eg if you are at work or out and about, but has anyone tried it?
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You'll always have more chance of getting a bet accepted by phone HS
 
Final Declarations...

Dr Horse Jockey
(1) Alexandros Kerrin McEvoy
(7) Cat Junior (USA) Richard Hughes
(2) Falco (USA) O. Peslier
(6) Henrythenavigator (USA) J. Murtagh
(4) Minneapolis J. A. Heffernan
(8) Raven's Pass (USA) Jimmy Fortune
(3) Rio de La Plata (USA) L. Dettori
(9) Stubbs Art (IRE) Seb Sanders
(5) Twice Over Ted Durcan
 
I think running round a bend will suit and for me he stays a mile. He was given a poor ride at Newmarket and used up his finishing burst just to get fourth.
 
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