The Camelot Hype Thread

Bar the Bull

Bar the Bull

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I don't know what to think. There are three possible answers to this conundrum:

Camelot is better than Hawk Wing, Galileo, Giant's Causeway, Rock of Gibraltar, Yeats, So You Think, etc.

Aidan O'Brien is making a mistake.

Aidan O'Brien is a big fat liar.

What do you guys think?
 
The thread is a bit contentious. My understanding of hype is something extravagantly promoted beyond anything to back it up.

The term may perhaps be applied to horses like Ernest Hemingway, who hasn’t lived up to his billing. But with Camelot we have a colt that has won three classics and got touched off in a fourth, despite running below his best.

I don’t think hype can really be applied here unless it is to say he has largely, if not completely, lived up to it.

I can certainly see why they like him so much. He’s a fine racehorse and a lovely individual. Very versatile and capable of a high level of performance. What isn’t there to like about him?
 
For me running at Doncaster compounded the mistake of running at The Curragh.I couldn't believe they ran the horse yesterday.Maybe like St Nics Abbey he is what he is but I would like to see him get an intelligent campaign next year.
 
Bar the Bull said:
So you have gone for option 1, Steve.

Fair enough.
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No not option 1. I don't believe he is necessarily any better than those you mention and may well be shy of a couple of them, but he certainly deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as one of Ballydoyle's best.

He hasn't finished his career yet so may increase or diminish in estimation of his worth. But as it stands he is pretty useful on what he's already achieved... I wouldn't mind owning him.
 
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Bar the Bull said:
O'Brien says he has "no doubt he is the best I have trained."
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That's right, that is what he said. What's more every year he has one that is
"the best I have trained". Which makes him option 3.
He seems to think we're all Gold fish when clearly only half of us are.
 
He said the same about George Washington too, before the Breeder's Cup of his 3yo year.

There is also option 4) Aidan O'Brien is a genius to be able to train horses so consistently when he clearly suffers from a rare but powerful form of amnesia that seasonally wipes all recollection of any horse he has previously trained.

It's quite sad watching him wandering round Coolmore..."listen, that's a nice stallion. Where did you get him from?..."
 
I'm hesitating between 2 and 3.

I can see why Camelot would be the apple of any trainer's eye but the evidence based on hindsight that this year's Derby and Guineas were below average is becoming impossible to refute, so 1 is out.

If it's 3 you would say that he's damaging not just his own credibility but that of the whole operation, something Mr Mags The Moneybags would not thank him for.

If it's 2, he's harming his own credibility, but it's a human enough thing for a trainer to be slower than everyone else to accept a horse is not as good as once thought.
 
if you google any particular year you will find the stable jockey at the time getting in on the act too.

"best ever"
 
It happens every season and is a pretty transparent attempt to boost stud value. Nevertheless not many are rated at 128-130. I think Hawk Wing was the highest rated Ballydoyle horse on a TF figure of 136. But he was only rated that highly as an older horse, after the Lockinge.
 
granger said:
I don't even follow the flat and I know that Camelot is not in the Top 10 horses ever trained by AOB
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I believe that Hawk Wing is the highest-rated horse trained by AOB on 136 (Timeform) - achieved as an older horse - but not many have been rated above 128-130. Galileo was on this sort of mark but given a final rating of 134.

If you want to look at it in terms of prize money Camelot has already earned more than nearly all of them. High Chaparral an exception.
 
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