The Champion Chase 2010
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That's not an excuse (how can it be??!!) - that is your reason for trying to understand why he wasn't good enough on the day. As I illustrated before, he has run perfectly well when running after a relatively short absence.
I am re-reading the above and see you are comparing not being fresh enough with a cracked rib!!
You seem absolutely lost on fundamental points when discussing Big Zeb.
I am re-reading the above and see you are comparing not being fresh enough with a cracked rib!!
You seem absolutely lost on fundamental points when discussing Big Zeb.
I am confused - are you suggesting Big Zeb ran up to his best that day? If you agree he didn't what does it matter weither it was an excuse or not - the run was too bad to be true from a horse that has looked great in his other starts this season. Clearly there must have been something up for him to perform so poorly.
No, of course I do not think it was his true running.
Horses are animals and can run poorly. That is obvious. What I do not accept is this childish series of excuses everytime Big Zeb does not run to near Moscow Flyer
lol::lol::lol.
It is a fact that several horses did not run to their best in the Champion Chase. However, unlike some, I am not proffering excuses left, right and centre for their below par performances.
Horses are animals and can run poorly. That is obvious. What I do not accept is this childish series of excuses everytime Big Zeb does not run to near Moscow Flyer
lol::lol::lol. It is a fact that several horses did not run to their best in the Champion Chase. However, unlike some, I am not proffering excuses left, right and centre for their below par performances.
Unlike yourself, I am not making excuses.
If you think Master Minded wasn't good enough, you know nothing about this horse. He ran below form, end of. Maybe he is regressing, maybe he has an injury - who knows. I am also quite confident that Kalahari King is better than we saw at Cheltenham but again, there are no excuses (he never seemed to be in a rhthym to me).
I took nothing away from Big Zeb (clearly the best horse on the day), and made no excuses for the beaten horses.
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I really do not see the difference........Big Zeb did not run to form at Sandown or any of his other trips to the UK prior to his win at Cheltenham...does that read remotely differently to saying the horse was not right or had a problem? I really fail to see it. So in future if Big Zeb runs a stinker I will just say he ran below form - that's fine with me, really makes no difference.
As for the QM - Master Minded ran below form and Twist Magic didn't jump ala BZ in the past - Kalahari King ON FORM should have finished in or around Forpady - Big Zeb thumped Forpady.
Because I am not on here refusing to accept when he is bad, but proclaiming him the second coming when he is good!! You are seeing what you like, and there seems to be little I can say to convince you otherwise.
You're wide of the mark re FPTP imo - KK has showed improved form since the Arkle, where he was also a little unlucky in running, and this year's ground would have suited him much, much better than the Arkle ground.
You're wide of the mark re FPTP imo - KK has showed improved form since the Arkle, where he was also a little unlucky in running, and this year's ground would have suited him much, much better than the Arkle ground.
The last line (which you just added since I made my post i think) is an honest view of a horse underperforming - making excuses is insufferable when there are none.
Kauto Star ran below form in Denman's Gold Cup...end of. Well what a boring debate that would have been!! Never trying to find the reasons or possible explanations for a horse running below form?
Forpadytheplasterer would have relished the better ground also - where as KK's better (?) form has come in handicap company with plenty of ease in the ground...I don't want to hear any excuses about bad luck in running Hamm!
What I do not accept is this childish series of excuses everytime Big Zeb does not run to near Moscow Flyer
I don't believe I have ever compared Big Zeb to MF.
You're right on one thing, horses are animals.
You're wrong in saying that there is a childish series of excuses. A horse can have an excuse everytime it runs, if that's the way it goes. Whether you get bored of these excuses is up to you, it is not childish. What is childish is a defiance in accepting when things have not gone right, and there is a legitimate excuse. For some horses, freshness is the most important thing, for others it is the ground, for others a fast pace. It can be as simple as one of those things being wrong and the difference can be huge.
Like our Gold Cup winner this year.
So what about Kauto and Denman (seeing as my views on it might be more credible for you considering the nationality thing) - if I go back and look at previous posts will I find any by your explaining why Kauto ran below form?
Look at your earlier post about Moscow Flyer (who YOU brought into the debate.
The excuse about the supposed need for being fresh simply does not wash - look at his race record and not what Colm is telling you.
What is your point?
If you do not want us to talk about excuses or reasons for the defeat of Big Zeb - I presume it applies to all other racehorses. Does it apply to the Denman vs Kauto debate?
I'm lost here. FPTP has a marked preference for good/fast ground (just talk to his owners - but guess I shouldn't pretend I have any inside knowledge on this horse either!!), ridden from the front in a two mile race. He only gets that at Cheltenham, Aintree and Punchestown so no idea how you could assume KK would beat him.
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Now you are being ridiculous.
I have never said anything like that (which you are well aware of) - what I have said is I have issue with the following (I will spell these out so you don't put more words into my mouth)...
When people want to excuse BZ from a loss but then try to suggest that horse is in the same parish as Moscow Flyer when he wins the CC
The inability to see the woods from the trees in terms of BZ's overall form, and from my point of view that form in relation to the rating awarded to Binocular
The suggestion what Colm Murphy says is right, when the formbook does not support such statements
The criticism of a perceived lack of grace when someone else gets a race wrong (even though that person was the first to congratulate) when same person only offers excuses when the reverse happens
The bias towards Irish horses and trainers by several on the forum
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He does, you're right - my point was he handled (& handles) the previous year's conditions much better than KK.
I rate Forpady, fwiw.
Thats a bit chippy bobbyjo if you doit mkind me saying
He was perhaps dismissed as a horse who couldnt cope with quick fences at a faster pace. Maybe need to watch race again, I think he wasnt so much out of form taht day as out of comfort zone.
So did FPTP and KK perform to their ratings or not? You said KK underperformed but the form book would suggest that it was only by a small margin as he finished in the same position with FPTP as last year?