The Derby & Irish Derby 2009

treetangle said:
Quite ridiculous tactics from Ballydoyle. Effectively they made it a 10f race which would only have suited Rip Van Winkle who in all probability was never going to improve past Sea The Stars. There was never any chance that Fame And Glory would outpace a Guineas winner and in the circumstances he ran well to be second. Despite getting a relatively easy lead I suspect as a guaranteed stayer the slow pace also cost Golden Sword a place. The plan was so bad you could almost be forgiven for thinking it was thought up by John Oxx.
Click to expand...

Absolutely treetangle....great first contribution. Again a stronger pace STS may well have won anyway but its just bizarre that his possible weakness was not seriously tested.
 
Im not entirely convinced that STS would have been totally inconvenienced by a faster pace. Certainly he wouldnt have been pulling away so hard early on and, as has been mentioned, does he just idle alittle in front rather than not stay?
 
Time isn't all that clever on the clock but thats understandable. He'll be bloody hard to beat over 10f and a Mile by anyone but I reckon he might have trouble over 1m4f against animals like Conduit.

The Eclipse, International and either Champion Stakes/Arc route looks best. A tilt at the BC classic is a must, it's tailor made for him.
 
LBM said:
You won´t have an answer to that question in this forum, Nicholas.
Make your own mind.
Click to expand...

I don't mind who knows that I agree with Nicholas - I personally can't have dosage at all. Mumbo jumbo.

I don't know about the Irish Derby; Oxx was saying that he suspected the ground would be too soft for him so seemed to prefer going to the Eclipse next. As has been said, he and Kinane virtually ruled out the Leger as well. The Irish Champion Stakes and the Champion Stakes were also mentioned as possibles, the Arc again came with the caveat about the ground, Oxx again saying he it often comes up soft so maybe not.

Ballydoyle's tactics - again - were blatant and more than a little bit mad. So it was quite amusing to see them play into the hands of Sea The Stars.
 
Long term Japan Cup might suit STS - ground is often fast.

With the BCC being on Pro Ride

Rachel Alexandra -v- Sea The Stars - I like the sound of that !!!
 
The Arc hasn't been run on soft ground for a good few years now, it's such a myth. It was like a frigging road when Rail Link (particularly) and Dylan Thomas won it. I think they're better saving him for the Breeders Cup classic, which could be a mouth watering line up.
 
A faster pace would have made little difference, only that Sea the Stars would have won by further.

FAG could have taken it up earlier if pace wasn't what he wanted. Poor jockeyship.

Eclipse perfect for RVW if no Sea the Stars.

Funny how before the race Fame and glory/other ballydoyle horses fans were saying it would take a 130+ performance to win, yet the form is now being crabbed as their selection isn't as good as hoped. Even though he looked to be idling, nothing was getting close.

Sea the Stars is an amazing racehorse, the best in quite some time. To see him cruise up in the home straight was incredible. I'll travel wherever he runs next, would give anything to see him.
 
Hamm said:
Funny how before the race Fame and glory/other ballydoyle horses fans were saying it would take a 130+ performance to win, yet the form is now being crabbed as their selection isn't as good as hoped. Even though he looked to be idling, nothing was getting close.
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no doubt Sea The Stars is a 130 horse, but common sense tells me you cannot give him a 130 mark give how the race was run and how the places horses finished in a bunch. I do not think its that difficult to understand why it couldnt and should be rated so highly.

Well done for keeping faith with the horse though.
 
Cheers. I will also concede i was wrong about RVW ... he should only race at 1m2 from now on though.

I think he should be on 129+ for that.
 
Hamm said:
Cheers. I will also concede i was wrong about RVW ... he should only race at 1m2 from now on though.

I think he should be on 129+ for that.
Click to expand...

Regarding RVW, they need to ride him handier...he looks as though he hits a flat spot over any trip and finds himself with too much to do each time.
 
I enjoyed that.

Think we'll be disappointed about The Leger Ardross, even though he'd piss up they're going to nesh it almost certainly. HUmpfh :mad: Maybe someone can launch a campaign, already spoken to Howard Wright!
 
The rides from Dettori and Kinane were tactical genius. Given the positions they occupied, it made no difference as to what pace Golden Sword and Age of Aquarius ran at, because it was Dettori and Kinane that dictated the tempo of the race.
 
Hamm said:
Euro - none of the ballydoyle horses were coming back at him though, were they?
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't enough of a stamina test for F&G, the winner had too much speed.

I do think RIP is capable of something special if he gets a nice flat track though. He stayed on very nicely from a midfield position - much like Alamshar did in Kris Kin's Derby.
 
davidjohnson said:
The rides from Dettori and Kinane were tactical genius. Given the positions they occupied, it made no difference as to what pace Golden Sword and Age of Aquarius ran at, because it was Dettori and Kinane that dictated the tempo of the race.
Click to expand...

Agreed DJ, they just ignored the two Ballydoyle horses...almost as if it was planned.
 
Surely Heffernan should have went past Dettori and Kinane from some way out and given credence to the pacemakers?
 
Perhaps it was Gal, Dettori's best chance of winning was in a race where he was on the front end of a softish lead (which in effect he had), in hindsight it probably made little difference how the race panned out given his superiority. Given the proximityof the rest it's difficult to take a high view of Sea The Star's bare form today, in fact I'm far from sure he's improved at a ll on the Guineas run. Impressions suggest though that he's more an Authorized than a Sir Percy though, that's for sure.
 
Hamm said:
Surely Heffernan should have went past Dettori and Kinane from some way out and given credence to the pacemakers?
Click to expand...

Indeed, though Heffernan isn't used to riding favourites in races such as this. Perhaps he ended up taking the view that if they are going too fast for Dettori and Kinane, they are going too fast for me. Split second judgements tend to make a massive difference in top-level sport.
 
I think that the way the race was run coupled with the slight idling in front and the fact that the gap was dominant enough without having to pushed too hard, negates too many doubts about the proximity of other runners.
 
davidjohnson said:
The rides from Dettori and Kinane were tactical genius. Given the positions they occupied, it made no difference as to what pace Golden Sword and Age of Aquarius ran at, because it was Dettori and Kinane that dictated the tempo of the race.
Click to expand...

Struggling to see any 'tactical genius' myself. Where did Dettori finish? Credit to Kinane for not riding a potential non-stayer out the back but that's about it. They sat where they did purely because they were going so slowly in front. The slow gallop dictated the race. Had Golden Sword really made it a proper gallop from the start they could not have afforded him the luxury of a massive lead and so would have used up far more energy in the earlier part of the race. Golden Sword should have been ridden as he was at Chester.
 
Back
Top