The Derby
- Thread starter Bar the Bull
- Start date
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I was under the impression that "quality of winner" is how good the horse is, not how good the performance was, and that is why Kris Kin, High Rise etc. are considered poor quality winners because of their subsequent poor performances, whilst High Chaparral, Sinndar etc. are considered good quality winners because of their subsequent very good performances.
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Subsequent shrug::
Hawk Wing, Sakhee, Tamure. Which one stands out like a sore thumb?
denisco_uk
At the Start
Kinane on Archipenko, Murtagh on Eagle Mountain.
Pretty clear Archipenko is considered their best hope.
Pretty clear Archipenko is considered their best hope.
DrizzleCity
At the Start
From the RP tonight....riding arrangements for O'Briens lot.
Authorized team unfazed by O'Brien's eight-strong challenge
by Jon Lees
THE AUTHORIZED camp was hoping to avoid a tactical onslaught from Ireland after Aidan O'Brien revealed plans on Wednesday to run eight horses against the odds-on favourite in the Vodafone Derby at Epsom on Saturday.
Saleh Al Homaizi, part owner of Authorized, told the Racing Post that he believed the sporting nature of O'Brien's operation would hold sway in a contest the whole world will be watching to see if Frankie Dettori can win his first Derby.
Al Homeizi said of the Ballydoyle challenge: “That's racing. It could be eight horses from other people.”
Asked if he feared the prospect of being outdone by tactics with so many runners from a single yard, he said: “I hope not.
“I don't think they will do such a thing as they are in sport and Authorized is by their stallion.
“I'm sure they would prefer to see him winning than any horse by another stallion. I hope everything goes well.”
O'Brien confirmed that all eight runners will be declared on Thursday morning, and named jockeys for each and every one.
The eight riders are all from Ireland, is in contrast to O'Brien's choice for his four runners in the Oaks, in which British-based riders Neil Callan and Martin Dwyer both take their first rides for the stable.
For the Derby, O'Brien has stayed closer to home, using five champions of Ireland and this season's championship leader among his octet.
Mick Kinane, who rode Galileo to Derby victory for O'Brien in 2001, will be on Archipenko, while Johnny Murtagh, successful aboard Sinndar for John Oxx in 2000 before winning on Ballydoyle's High Chaparral in 2002 and more recently Motivator for Michael Bell two years ago, will bid for a fourth win in the race on Eagle Mountain.
“The plan is for all eight to be declared in the morning,” said O'Brien.
“Seamie Heffernan will be on Admiralofthefleet, Wayne Lordan on Soldier Of Fortune, Pat Smullen on Mahler and Colm O'Donoghue on Yellowstone. Fran Berry will ride Acapulco and Declan McDonogh will ride Anton Chekhov.”
The ride on Anton Chekhov will be Ireland's reigning champion McDonogh's first Classic ride for Ballydoyle, and the same can be said of Berry and Lordan.
Lordan said: “I'm delighted to be part of the team. I've never ridden around Epsom before, so I'll be walking the track on Saturday morning with the rest of the team, but I'm really looking forward to Saturday.” Smullen said: “It's great to have a ride in the race and all of Aidan's would have to be respected on Saturday.
“Mahler is a tough individual and stays which is a big help around Epsom. If you're not in you can't win.”
Of the O'Brien octet, it is possible that Yellowstone could yet divert to the Prix du Jockey-Club at Chantilly on Sunday, though O'Brien appears to have pencilled in Chinese Whisper and Alexander Of Hales for that race.
Salford Mill had drifted to 69 on Betfair on Wednesday night despite having “worked brilliantly”, according to trainer David Elsworth.
Having previously expressed concern that the colt had not been working with his usual zest, Elsworth struck a more confident tone on Wednesday. The prospect of soft ground is now the bigger issue.
“Salford Mill worked brilliantly this morning and I am very pleased with him,” he said.
“Everything is okay with him. The weather is a nuisance there. It's been pouring with rain and that is not much of a comfort.”
Frankie Dettori, back in action at Sandown on Tuesday night for the first time since hurting his knee on Friday, took another day off yesterday but will ride on Thursday night at Sandown as he builds towards Saturday's reunion with hot favourite Authorized.
Having ridden four second on the Sandown card the night before, he gave up his five rides at Yarmouth and Beverley complaining the knee he damaged in a fall at Goodwood was still sore.
He is due to partner Tam Lin for Godolphin in the Brigadier Gerard Stakes and racing manager Simon Crisford said: “Frankie was quite energetic at Sandown and maybe thought that a day's rest might help. He'll be there tomorrow for us.”
Though Dettori rides for Peter Chapple-Hyam on Saturday, further rain at Epsom has increased the likelihood that Saeed Bin Suroor will saddle Eastern Anthem in the Derby.
Crisford added: “He will be declared if it is soft or worse than soft, in which case Kerrin McEvoy will ride.”
Authorized team unfazed by O'Brien's eight-strong challenge
by Jon Lees
THE AUTHORIZED camp was hoping to avoid a tactical onslaught from Ireland after Aidan O'Brien revealed plans on Wednesday to run eight horses against the odds-on favourite in the Vodafone Derby at Epsom on Saturday.
Saleh Al Homaizi, part owner of Authorized, told the Racing Post that he believed the sporting nature of O'Brien's operation would hold sway in a contest the whole world will be watching to see if Frankie Dettori can win his first Derby.
Al Homeizi said of the Ballydoyle challenge: “That's racing. It could be eight horses from other people.”
Asked if he feared the prospect of being outdone by tactics with so many runners from a single yard, he said: “I hope not.
“I don't think they will do such a thing as they are in sport and Authorized is by their stallion.
“I'm sure they would prefer to see him winning than any horse by another stallion. I hope everything goes well.”
O'Brien confirmed that all eight runners will be declared on Thursday morning, and named jockeys for each and every one.
The eight riders are all from Ireland, is in contrast to O'Brien's choice for his four runners in the Oaks, in which British-based riders Neil Callan and Martin Dwyer both take their first rides for the stable.
For the Derby, O'Brien has stayed closer to home, using five champions of Ireland and this season's championship leader among his octet.
Mick Kinane, who rode Galileo to Derby victory for O'Brien in 2001, will be on Archipenko, while Johnny Murtagh, successful aboard Sinndar for John Oxx in 2000 before winning on Ballydoyle's High Chaparral in 2002 and more recently Motivator for Michael Bell two years ago, will bid for a fourth win in the race on Eagle Mountain.
“The plan is for all eight to be declared in the morning,” said O'Brien.
“Seamie Heffernan will be on Admiralofthefleet, Wayne Lordan on Soldier Of Fortune, Pat Smullen on Mahler and Colm O'Donoghue on Yellowstone. Fran Berry will ride Acapulco and Declan McDonogh will ride Anton Chekhov.”
The ride on Anton Chekhov will be Ireland's reigning champion McDonogh's first Classic ride for Ballydoyle, and the same can be said of Berry and Lordan.
Lordan said: “I'm delighted to be part of the team. I've never ridden around Epsom before, so I'll be walking the track on Saturday morning with the rest of the team, but I'm really looking forward to Saturday.” Smullen said: “It's great to have a ride in the race and all of Aidan's would have to be respected on Saturday.
“Mahler is a tough individual and stays which is a big help around Epsom. If you're not in you can't win.”
Of the O'Brien octet, it is possible that Yellowstone could yet divert to the Prix du Jockey-Club at Chantilly on Sunday, though O'Brien appears to have pencilled in Chinese Whisper and Alexander Of Hales for that race.
Salford Mill had drifted to 69 on Betfair on Wednesday night despite having “worked brilliantly”, according to trainer David Elsworth.
Having previously expressed concern that the colt had not been working with his usual zest, Elsworth struck a more confident tone on Wednesday. The prospect of soft ground is now the bigger issue.
“Salford Mill worked brilliantly this morning and I am very pleased with him,” he said.
“Everything is okay with him. The weather is a nuisance there. It's been pouring with rain and that is not much of a comfort.”
Frankie Dettori, back in action at Sandown on Tuesday night for the first time since hurting his knee on Friday, took another day off yesterday but will ride on Thursday night at Sandown as he builds towards Saturday's reunion with hot favourite Authorized.
Having ridden four second on the Sandown card the night before, he gave up his five rides at Yarmouth and Beverley complaining the knee he damaged in a fall at Goodwood was still sore.
He is due to partner Tam Lin for Godolphin in the Brigadier Gerard Stakes and racing manager Simon Crisford said: “Frankie was quite energetic at Sandown and maybe thought that a day's rest might help. He'll be there tomorrow for us.”
Though Dettori rides for Peter Chapple-Hyam on Saturday, further rain at Epsom has increased the likelihood that Saeed Bin Suroor will saddle Eastern Anthem in the Derby.
Crisford added: “He will be declared if it is soft or worse than soft, in which case Kerrin McEvoy will ride.”
A
Ardross
Guest
Where is that snippet from Triptych ? I see it is in the RP . Wonder whether Prince KA put his foot down ?
Here it is!
From the RP:
Hughes in from the cold to ride Arabian Gulf for Stoute
by Tony Elves
RICHARD HUGHES has come in for the ride on the Sir Michael Stoute-trained Arabian Gulf in the Vodafone Derby, with Kerrin McEvoy claimed to ride the Saeed Bin Suroor-trained Eastern Anthem.
It was a year ago that Hughes appeared to incur Stoute's displeasure over his riding of Home Affairs in the Diomed Stakes on Derby day, and his rides for the champion trainer came to an abrupt stop last October, even on horses owned by Khalid Abdullah, with whom Hughes has a retainer.
McEvoy rode Arabian Gulf to victory in a Newmarket maiden in April and was again in the plate when the Sadler's Wells colt failed by only a short head behind Soldier Of Fortune in the Chester Vase. Despite looking a likely non-runner at theweekend, the inclement weather has meant a rethink about his participation in the Classic.
Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to Khalid Abdullah, said: “Richard Hughes will ride Arabian Gulf and the rains have swayed the decision to run him.
“Originally, Kerrin McEvoy was going to ride - he has ridden him twice this season - but he's unavailable and we are very happy to be able to use Richard Hughes.”
From the RP:
Hughes in from the cold to ride Arabian Gulf for Stoute
by Tony Elves
RICHARD HUGHES has come in for the ride on the Sir Michael Stoute-trained Arabian Gulf in the Vodafone Derby, with Kerrin McEvoy claimed to ride the Saeed Bin Suroor-trained Eastern Anthem.
It was a year ago that Hughes appeared to incur Stoute's displeasure over his riding of Home Affairs in the Diomed Stakes on Derby day, and his rides for the champion trainer came to an abrupt stop last October, even on horses owned by Khalid Abdullah, with whom Hughes has a retainer.
McEvoy rode Arabian Gulf to victory in a Newmarket maiden in April and was again in the plate when the Sadler's Wells colt failed by only a short head behind Soldier Of Fortune in the Chester Vase. Despite looking a likely non-runner at theweekend, the inclement weather has meant a rethink about his participation in the Classic.
Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to Khalid Abdullah, said: “Richard Hughes will ride Arabian Gulf and the rains have swayed the decision to run him.
“Originally, Kerrin McEvoy was going to ride - he has ridden him twice this season - but he's unavailable and we are very happy to be able to use Richard Hughes.”
A
Ardross
Guest
Would be very amusing if the horse won ! To see Hughes and Stoute in the winners enclosure pretending to get on 
A
Ardross
Guest
Talking to yourself again Venusian ???
Timeform's worst Derby-winning performances in the last 60 years:
2006 119+ Sir Percy
2003 122+ Kris Kin
1995 123 Lammtarra
1969 123 Blakeney
On 125 are Oath, High-Rise, Benny The Dip, Shaamit, Snow Knight, Morston and Larkspur with North Light on 125+. Then comes Commander In Chief on 126.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,014
Didn't Tf have Sir P on something like 127 immediately after last year's race?
A
Ardross
Guest
The Daily Mail reports !
Richard Hughes will ride Arabian Gulf in the Derby at Epsom on Saturday.
Owner Khaled Abdullah is understood to have insisted the jockey takes the mount, even though trainer Sir Michael Stoute has not used the jockey this season.
Hughes's retainer with Prince Khaled Abdullah does not include those horses trained by Stoute.
But finding a top jockey for the mount was proving difficult with alternative choice Kerrin McEvoy needed to ride Godolphin contender Empire Day.
Hughes, who was originally booked to ride John Gosden's Lucarno, was given no choice. It is a decision which will not please either Hughes or Stoute, who engineered the parting of their ways at the end of last season.
* One thing strikes me - as Abdulla now retains Stephane Pasquier in France he could have ridden the horse . I wonder whether we are approaching Wildenstein -Piggott with Stoute and Hughes and the Abdulla horses - will one of them have to go ?
Richard Hughes will ride Arabian Gulf in the Derby at Epsom on Saturday.
Owner Khaled Abdullah is understood to have insisted the jockey takes the mount, even though trainer Sir Michael Stoute has not used the jockey this season.
Hughes's retainer with Prince Khaled Abdullah does not include those horses trained by Stoute.
But finding a top jockey for the mount was proving difficult with alternative choice Kerrin McEvoy needed to ride Godolphin contender Empire Day.
Hughes, who was originally booked to ride John Gosden's Lucarno, was given no choice. It is a decision which will not please either Hughes or Stoute, who engineered the parting of their ways at the end of last season.
* One thing strikes me - as Abdulla now retains Stephane Pasquier in France he could have ridden the horse . I wonder whether we are approaching Wildenstein -Piggott with Stoute and Hughes and the Abdulla horses - will one of them have to go ?
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
With Sir Percy it was a capital + last year.
122 + for his run in the Guineas
119 + for his Derby
Rated 129 at the end of the season.
This link offers a more readable verison.
http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/classic...rby_preview.htm
http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/classic...rby_preview.htm
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,014
Thanks, Euro.
So, since he only ran once more and was well beaten, are we to assume the 129 was for the Derby?
And the others beaten by the width of a ciggie paper in the Derby?
I really do wonder sometimes about Timeform.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I think the 129 comes from the Guineas. I think they upgraded the form after George posted a top class effort in the QE11.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Surprised he's not got his nephew to apply for a flat license.