The Derby

Oh yes. I think there was way too much hype about this horse being another Sea the Stars and so inevitably there is disappointment. But he ran a fine trial for the Derby and maybe he's another Generous instead.
 
I do think the RPT form reads as exceptional and he was visually impressive too that day.

I'm not sure he was being hyped as another STS, though. I think it read more like wishful thinking in the racing media.

I thought AOB was commendably frank afterwards. He talked about SNA putting up training times that were at least on a par with the yard's best milers, etc. They seemed fully justified in having high hopes for the horse but he also made it clear that this was never meant to be any more than a stepping stone to Epsom. I reckon they just thought he'd have a fairly straightforward task today but it didn't pan out as they'd expected.

I can see SNA being a long way better than he showed today come Derby day.
 
he was always going to be better over further - todays test wasn't a true 8f pace either so he has run ok as a prep..which AOB pointed to it being..after the race like:D
 
He's gonna struggle IMO in the derby as he again will probably face ground which isn't sure to suit and the doubts about his stamina have to be a concern. Also his sister didn't really train on from 2-3 it may be a family trait. He didn't look that great to me today.
 
Didnt have a bet today, but more i watch this game, the more convinced I am that horses do pretty well what they are bred to do. He isnt a miler...

He is definately going to be better over further but a 7/4 derby shot? No way. What was Generous's price at this stage? (and i am sure he ran better in the guineas)

Would also question whether they are quite so sanguine about today as they are making out, given the big money that came for him at already short prices yesterday
 
clivex said:
Didnt have a bet today, but more i watch this game, the more convinced I am that horses do pretty well what they are bred to do. He isnt a miler...

He is definately going to be better over further but a 7/4 derby shot? No way. What was Generous's price at this stage? (and i am sure he ran better in the guineas)

Would also question whether they are quite so sanguine about today as they are making out, given the big money that came for him at already short prices yesterday
Click to expand...

thats why i said an ok prep - not 7/4 derby stuff for sure- generous was 4th in his guneas running a far better race
 
Paul Cole expected Generous to win his Guineas and trained him for it. He was beaten convincingly in a below average renewal and badly needed a trip.
 
Last edited:
In hindsight I guess it is somewhat surprising that they did not have a hare put in to making the running - Fencing Master was prominent but he is not really the type of front runner that could press on. Maybe a sign of over confidence in SNA to win regardless. Don't know why Viscount Nelson held on to.

Either way we know from the past what these beaten Ballydoyle horses can go on an achieve.
 
Euronymous said:
Paul Cole expected Generous to win his Guineas and trained him for it. He was beaten convincingly in a below average renewal and badly needed a trip.
Click to expand...

he was a running on 4th .. not beaten easily...he was never a miler and 4th was a hell of a result for him to be fair

easily beaten.. is an odd summing up
 
form book comments

Generous 11/1

chsed ldrs til outpaced 3 out, stayed on wl fnl furlong

finished 4th beating 10 others..only he and one other horse running fto that season

there was only one horse that finished from the back..Lyceus..the race suited on pace horses
 
Last edited:
EC1 said:
he was a running on 4th .. not beaten easily...he was never a miler and 4th was a hell of a result for him to be fair

easily beaten.. is an odd summing up
Click to expand...

He was beaten over 8L and his trainer was gutted. Obviously he needed further but he'd have been more forward than SNA was today.
 
Why does everyone seem to think SNA wasn't forward for today it was the bloody 2000 guineas. There is no way aiden o'brien would have run this horse today if they didn't want to win the race and he wasn't ready. Remember what a day this would have been for Montjeu their star sire if he could produce a guineas winner and to the business as a whole.
 
I should rephrase myself here sorry I meant to say why would anyone think SNA wasnt forward for today not why does everyone seem to think!
 
Henrythenavigator, Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsman all improved markedly on their first run, and they were horse's who appreciated a mile.
 
But those three weren't supposed to be potential triple crown winners. SNA looked fit as a flea today have a look again at him if you can in the pre-parade ring I would be very surprised if they left much to chance.
 
I understand where you're coming from but most of his have needed their first run over the last couple of years. And even if he was fully tuned the race wasn't run to suit in any case. I don't think he's run a lot worse or at all than New Approach did a couple of year's back. It was certainly a far better field.
 
I don't think fitness was an issue - fast ground and a slowly run mile he was simply found wanting in those conditions.
 
Kauto I was told by someone in Coolmore that Rip Van Winkle was a triple crown horse this was before he had run in the Guineas they believed he was as good as any before him
 
I was disappointed with the horse. His proximity to Elusive Pimpernel tells you that he didn't run to his RP Trophy form. The ground may have been fast enough, he had his head a little high as if he was feeling something, but the main thing I didn't like about him was how he got into a bit of a state beforehand, he was all of a lather behind the saddle, and the extended preliminaries as well as firmish ground are reasons to be less than hopeful of his chances at Epsom. I don't yet know what will win the Derby, but I know I won't be backing St Nicholas Abbey at 4's.
 
If St Nic handles the preliminaries at Epsom in the same way he will be absolutely fine. He only got warm (on a pretty warm day) down at the start - and he wouldn't be the first Montjeu to get a bit warm - but that wouldn't worry me.
 
davidjohnson said:
I was disappointed with the horse. His proximity to Elusive Pimpernel tells you that he didn't run to his RP Trophy form. The ground may have been fast enough, he had his head a little high as if he was feeling something
Click to expand...

He's always carried his head a little high.
 
Interesting they are talking about taking in a Guineas first with Jan Vermeer. Presumably they'll go the French route with him as they have plenty for the Irish Guineas.
 
You'd think this is going to be more and more common with Ballydoyle - they have so many Galileos and Montjeus that they will want to be adding to their profiles by placing or maybe winning these early mile classics before going on for the traditional Derbys and staying races.
 
Back
Top